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00:01:23:01 – 00:01:53:01

Hello. I’m Elliot Wald, addiction specialist. And welcome to another episode of Coming Clean with me here in the studios today with me is Luke Clark. Luke is the host of the podcast Stress Sessions, where he has guests ranging on topics of anxiety, depression and all sorts of mental health issues.

00:01:53:07 – 00:02:12:04

Luke is joining us today. So is our codependency and he sobriety. Welcome, Luke. Thank you for coming. How are you doing? Yeah, good. Thanks very much to be back. It’s good. Tell me about what it was like growing up as a child for you when you grew up. And what that was like. Yeah, yeah. Some of us could grow up in quite a normal household, I think.

00:02:12:06 – 00:02:33:10

it was a in Kent. not without having me. Okay. And so it’s it’s a little bit different, but not really. but yeah, it was quite a normal upbringing. my two parents, Who together? My parents block for a year, which caused a little bit of that. So many well have thought about what I’ve since found out about.

00:02:33:12 – 00:02:58:00

I’ve no sister, so I was sort of looking after her a little bit. and I went off to university after university was to do a university audit journalism. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it’s a bit. It’s all coming towards me now, with how podcasts sort of thing. yeah, it’s relatively normal upbringing. it’s but then sort of found that as I grew up, that that isn’t a traditional upbringing.

00:02:58:02 – 00:03:18:08

so I’m never going to get into that in a minute. But the alcohol dependency side of it. Yeah. My, my dad used to drink all up when I was younger. and again, come become comfortable, I guess. But one of my aims in life was to not depend on alcohol like he did at some point. So,

00:03:18:10 – 00:03:41:21

Yeah, my to do when I’m not depend on alcohol, I don’t drink, but I’m okay because there’s a difference, right? Yeah. There are some people who can drink but are not alcohol dependent, and there are people who are alcohol dependent and therefore they can’t drink. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And, how were we? We first started drinking. I was probably 16, 17.

00:03:41:23 – 00:04:02:14

I, like probably most teenagers, used to have house parties and stuff like that. Oh, guys, house parties get drunk, just to have a good time. But then, as we were, I was getting to clubs. I was like, probably like 16, 17. And it was one of those clubs where you got I was a past guy. You do something that was older than 18.

00:04:02:16 – 00:04:29:22

You can pretty easily see that as an older you guys. And so I used to go clubbing men in soccer. So from 16 years old onwards. Okay. And what were the triggers for you and what were the triggers that made you go drinking? for me, I, I’ve always been quite reserved and I struggled quite a lot in kind of a lot of aspects of life with speaking in groups of social anxiety.

00:04:29:24 – 00:04:53:01

It’s not as bad anymore. growing up, I’ve always been a bit off this person. A lot of like me, I’ve always sort of had a bit of imposter syndrome, and to me drink was an outlet. So I used to drink to try and be a bit more outgoing and be a bit louder. it’s kind of like a bit more bit myself, if that makes sense, from braver and more to life.

00:04:53:01 – 00:05:22:24

And so this is it. Yeah. This is it. Yeah. So people would like you. Yeah, yeah. You wanted people to like you. Yeah, yeah. Why do you think that was that you were looking for that need a future like you? I think because I think about myself. Oh it was. It’s one of those things where I didn’t really know who I was, and I don’t know what I wanted to be or wanted to do, but I just, I was never, never massively happy in my own skin.

00:05:23:01 – 00:05:40:24

And that came across with my parents. I used to spend a lot of time doing my hair a lot like most teenage boys day, but it got to the point where I was like, I’ll behave like, look the way I do now. I’ll talk about that in, but I used to drink nice, but I don’t really care as much about what I like, so it’s fine.

00:05:41:01 – 00:06:03:09

So it’s kind of a bit more to get myself positive base. But I was younger. Okay. But then you become dependent on that feeling of having that positive boost. That’s what happened, right? Yeah, yeah. And in time. So really when I went to university, that was the point where you going out drinking every day. Yes. Going out for play for almost a week.

00:06:03:09 – 00:06:20:10

Students got don’t go out weekends because it’s too expensive. But Monday to Friday you got drinking and it just be the norm. Yeah. And it just becomes something that you do every day. You do it because everybody else does it. Yeah. And nobody sees as a problem. When you have free time will you drink? Is you drinking every day at uni?

00:06:20:10 – 00:06:42:19

But what about after you have a free can you be drinking then? Probably. I’ll probably say about still five times a week. I mean, I’ve always been talking to himself into the last couple of years. I’ve always been nice. People are getting from work or finish work and God, you know, I’ve worked hard to that one with a lot of freebies.

00:06:42:21 – 00:07:13:08

My talents are always getting something like lots of ups of reward myself. Like how at the end of the working day, most of the time, right. And I deserve it better. Listen, this is it. Yeah, I did go to that point with me and it was in lockdown. But when I started doing, I used a lot of my laptop and other bed and be like, I deserve based on what really got started, you know, and it went from there and he so for me, that was the trigger was this is getting bites when you, when you die, you drinking at home by yourself.

00:07:13:08 – 00:07:37:17

Well when there’s no those around you because it’s such a big social thing and he wants to meet you for quite a time. But when they got to that stage, I was a bit like, nice isn’t quite right. I think I noticed with my patients when you speak about lockdown, I certainly noticed a lot of people increased, addiction, whether it was the packet, whether it was alcohol, all of a sudden they were home and they didn’t have to get up.

00:07:37:19 – 00:07:59:12

They didn’t have things to do. There was nowhere to go. And therefore it was okay because I need to get up early tomorrow. I didn’t have to do this. There was no structure to the life, and I think so many people who used previous where there was alcohol or drugs that increased significantly during the lockdown. And for many people, when lockdown came out, they then had these new passes that they continued on with.

00:07:59:14 – 00:08:16:06

Is that what happened with you? I think so, yeah. I need to explain. I say this so I spoke about parents and stuff a lot previously and during lockdown you did. We left them out, you know, for both of you. Because. Because like I said, you just got out bed. You know, you’ve had flight shows and takes you on your day that you have to go to work.

00:08:16:06 – 00:08:39:09

When I see that business. So it’s very easy to just get into a negative routine, I think. And that was part of, I think, what makes it very safe. But then alongside that kind of podcasts, looking back on that now, the stress, I was kind of born, me going through that and, and going through that cycle of all this isn’t a bad sort routine sometimes.

00:08:39:10 – 00:09:01:21

Right. But something good came out at the same time. You learn from it. Yeah. I think what were the negative consequences that we were drinking? so long as, you know, time. So I guess there’s there’s a few key ones. So I look back before I tell myself, and I’m a bit like, that’s. I don’t know how that was made.

00:09:02:00 – 00:09:21:24

Someone sounds ridiculous, but there’s a photo of me on I still have this gun now. And I shot in my head during lockdown and for mental health. and I’ll sit there and watch the champagne in my living room during lockdown. Just like, but just basically swigging from the champagne bowl. I’m like, that’s not me anymore. It’s really weird.

00:09:22:04 – 00:09:43:09

So it’s like it’s way to the back of far like that. I think there’s the two instances that stand out for me and my style. I, I, I’ve, I’m the I’ve told the story months before to the friends and my wife was like the you don’t know the whole story because she was at the time. But the first time I probably start talking with drinking.

00:09:43:09 – 00:10:12:04

That was the first night you reached up. It was I was in holiday, I think it was in, coffee. My wife and I just drank because it was just charging. So she kind of like my my this, And we drank and I went out with some other people at the hotel, and I was on medication for a minute, half of the time.

00:10:12:10 – 00:10:33:15

And I’ve been for probably on and off, I know, and there’s no I did not some medication know meant to mix the medication be taking over. It was at home. I think it was saturate central. It’s an antidepressant. Yeah. Because you’re taking an anti person to bring you down and then you’re using a depressant to take you further down.

00:10:33:15 – 00:11:01:19

This is a yeah. Yeah. And it was I can’t remember a lot of my life based on what my wife’s told me it was, I, I shouted, that’s how to say a face off in more ways than one. I think and again, I didn’t realize at the time I was listening in some sense, saying things about my, I wandered off and slept in a bush.

00:11:01:19 – 00:11:22:23

I saw the hotel. I literally felt kind of safe and woke up, walked into the room. The next day. I was like, what happened? And my wife is like, you joined? She blacked out. Yeah, literally. and the shock for me in that instance was the hotel was on a cliff, so I could have done anything and just not realize that.

00:11:23:01 – 00:11:41:24

Well, how long ago was this was five years? 4 or 5 years ago now. And that wasn’t your wake up call? No, not there was up. And there was one more time when I was on this. This is it. And it was when I went out and did like percentage. All right. I should not have been 20 based on.

00:11:41:24 – 00:12:07:22

Right. And I went out with one of my friends and then some of us, and I just, I just, I don’t know what it was, but somebody said something to me. I was going to ask my wife are really insecure. So my natural reaction to that is, I’m going to drink more to try and put that sort of security jacket on, you know, and it’s sort of and it’s like that.

00:12:08:01 – 00:12:32:11

Since I’ve talked about this and our black child of I wandered off from, from the great black child fell asleep in the cold. But Mike is still alive. Continuously called my wife. He wasn’t supposed to pick me up. So I spoke inside of a white House. she had to find me because I didn’t have. I was just driving around like a bus trying to find me, and I was just passed out the door.

00:12:32:11 – 00:12:53:01

I was like, fuck, this is. This is too much. I put in my wife and myself, my family through this all the time, and it was a bit like. That was a way to go. And that was the last time drunk that I that was lost and we just lost one. Yeah, that was the straw, the final straw.

00:12:53:03 – 00:13:22:02

Well, how did the impact your wife in your family? The drinking? Yeah. it’s it’s it’s had a massively negative impact on myself, my wife’s relationship over the years. And I for some shit, like some lost lots of shit. And it’s she’s she’s probably saved me quite a few times for certain situations where I’ve been passed out.

00:13:22:02 – 00:13:40:05

She’s helped me get high road. just got me out of sticky situations. I got myself into it and it’s it’s been bad. It’s been bad in the past. But let’s take a toll on your relationship. Yeah, yeah, I just I mean, it’s got to the point sometimes where I think we could have stopped because I fucked up.

00:13:40:05 – 00:14:09:09

So badly. Would you. Did your wife drink very minimally? she she does drink from time to time. but she’s never been a massive drinker. But I think that often that comes into the. Because she doesn’t drink a lot, I can just die while sipping. Good. Also, someone’s going to look after me. Yeah, yeah. And it’s been a bit like that for for my whole life, I did.

00:14:09:11 – 00:14:32:16

I met you, like I mentioned in the, when I was in school, my best mate stand up and say, hey, you saw the coffee when I was drunk, but afterwards I lost blood. When I got up, he was 16, 17. He’s come out with me, released me after me. so I always had that, that person that looked after me whenever I’ve been out of it and it just goes.

00:14:32:20 – 00:15:03:07

I was like, I’ll talk. What am I gonna sell this one? Like, it’s I’m getting called now. It’s the I need to take responsibility for my actions and to be a better person. Yeah, I think I think I read somewhere in the research assistant like you drugged. You drank to get drunk. Was that right? Yeah. I’m not one of those people that because a lot of people are happy with just going to the pub to have, like, one point or two pints and just have a bit of a social.

00:15:03:12 – 00:15:25:06

And for me, I couldn’t ever really stop. It was a bit like, oh, I’ve got a coffee now, what’s the harm having a female so my sons how I’ll go out, see a drunk and I’ll have a good time and and not really think about the consequences. It’s interesting how you associate being drunk with having a good time.

00:15:25:06 – 00:15:48:04

Yeah, it was like. It’s exclusive. I think it’ll take me to, like, tonight. I think a lot of people get drunk because I would. I have thought thoughts and a different outlook on life and had to behave in a way that they can without, with the excuse to behave that way. Yeah, yeah. Let her head down. I speak and and so socially acceptable.

00:15:48:06 – 00:16:15:24

Yeah. This is it. And I’ve, I’ve learned over the past couple of years since I’ve stopped drinking that it’s they still buy stigma that that when you, when you drink you’re born and it’s you don’t drink when you don’t. Yeah. Well you don’t drink again. But what do you say to people who say that you actually tell them in short terms the story of what I can say and that I basically almost kill myself.

00:16:16:01 – 00:16:41:03

So that’s what I. Yeah, first of all, all that if I’m not a few seconds lost, it’s usually strangers that come up to you now. Why why not drinking like you? Hopefully. And it’s a bit like, well, this isn’t enough. So telling mutual to like this. Miller. Oh fair play right. It’s interesting though, because you still put yourself in the situation where there is someone that can come up to you unless you that question, you put yourself back in the environment.

00:16:41:05 – 00:17:02:14

I know you drinking, zero alcohol free, beer when you drink it, but you have choices for yourself and you garden. A lot of people can’t do with them. How do you how do you deal with, now that I’m in control? And I think that the way I look at it is I like being around my friends.

00:17:02:14 – 00:17:24:05

So friends, someone must have theories. And it is first one I’ve been been to since I started being sober. I was off always three hours long, would be around like drunk people 24 seven. Not going to be knocking me to drink big shots, two pints, whatever. And I was like, this is a real I. But I knew, I knew that I wasn’t going to drink, I was I’ve done this like two years.

00:17:24:06 – 00:17:48:22

The house and knowing that I could take myself out of that situation and that environment, then being too much and drinking too much, like I could put myself in that situation. Just go out. Towel, go for a walk. However, knowing that I’m in control of myself, I’m in control of my actions. Whereas if I would have been drinking, I wouldn’t have been.

00:17:48:24 – 00:18:09:05

That’s what really helps me for it. And it sounds weird, but like, no, I get a okay, that was the first evening I was actually in Prague. I am also somebody else is going to be fooled. And he got hit that midnight. I was in this bar and I was a bit like, this guy’s like a bit doors solid.

00:18:09:07 – 00:18:27:13

All right, go for it. Walk just like I, I yeah, yeah, I knew and I was like, you don’t look very well. Let’s say he’s like, nah, if I do not from that side we got a bad taste. However, once we just walk past, I tell him and I just it’s a bit like it was so nice. being in control, I.

00:18:27:14 – 00:18:45:03

And I don’t know if, like, you’ve had this or anybody listens up, but when, when you’re out drinking and some of the guys actually have enough for drinking, it’s not 3:00 in the morning and you like, yeah, you’re not wrong enough to keep drinking and to be in that situation where you can just stop and be like, I just I had a good night.

00:18:45:06 – 00:19:07:20

I’m bored now. I like, I like sleep, it’s it’s nice. This sounds really weird, but it’s just it’s a nice bed, you know, I get it. I get it’s interesting that you, you’re in a position now to put yourself in that situation and still be controlled, because when you mention stuck to, my best friend’s name, I don’t know, it was funny enough, one of my best friends, and he had a stag do Friday.

00:19:07:20 – 00:19:26:16

Two weeks just gone, and there’s like 10 in 10 boys. And like, we’ve known each other for a long time, and not everybody I know really trains. And they’re quite serious, but they’re quite intense and they’re quite old enough thing. And they still some of them still use and some of them drink. And they were saying, oh, she had an APB for the weekend.

00:19:26:16 – 00:19:50:04

Like, you could just imagine all ten felons in a weekend in an Airbnb. You know, what’s going to happen. And I was just, I was trying to diplomatically change when we get together. In fact, we did end up going to see what it’s going to do with Chester in the West End. And we went and had a meal and they left, and it was so different to stag do that I’ve been to in the past, but it was refreshing and nice.

00:19:50:06 – 00:20:08:20

But I don’t know if I can put myself in that situation of a stag do, surrounded by everybody else like myself who would have been using hard drinking. It was tough. It was hard. I know it was really weird. So I and because I’ve never yeah. You know, I know it’s just alcohol for you. Yeah. I say just not just.

00:20:08:21 – 00:20:29:07

Yeah. Oh dog in that side bar. They all responded. We were in there was there was a bunch of lads doing hiking. I literally just didn’t come to the table, I don’t know. And I was like, I was proud of myself for being in that situation and being not not using. Yeah. You know, drink, not drinking. No, not I was a bit like this is because free easy guy.

00:20:29:09 – 00:20:51:08

I couldn’t have done it. I’d have not gone oh drunk. This is a bit of that situation. It’s a real test. It’s not for me. I’ve had like I get I know if read got this, but almost dying. Some I’ve had like stuck into wedding, like Christmas is like all these like hyper birthdays. But if you take a look you like shelf.

00:20:51:08 – 00:21:28:07

I won’t go for that situation. Funerals, weddings. Yeah. This is nice Christmas. New year’s is a big one, right? Yeah. How did you do it? Using. Besides wedding, you found it. That’s not so. Is it like I was? I’ll just keep it simple. Enough said I, you know, I came back to talk about that how it. And not being a big group of people now just being offered to the cinema and then chilled out other alcohol free I, I did watch the follow ups and tell you that it’s a lot more contrast, man.

00:21:28:11 – 00:21:47:18

Like I just, I feel like every loser, I feel I could lose it and then ask this question, and this question is going to be the total answer. How do you feel when you die? You know, I liked it a lot. Is it so that loser actually is a winner? Yeah. Because you stay with the Russians, right? Yeah.

00:21:47:20 – 00:22:08:01

I mean, I don’t know how many New Year’s days. For me, that was just lying in bed feeling like shit inside. Sideways managed to get on the sofa, staring intently like, what the fuck? It’s nice to see these, like, now, because in the past it wouldn’t have been the same. You just be better time. It just be like, I’m going to just say, where’s the loser?

00:22:08:01 – 00:22:33:05

You’re the winner. Yeah, yeah. So three years you been sober. That was all right. Phrase in December, three days in December. So when you first got sober, there must have been some challenges. What were the most challenging things that you had to deal with? I think. Christmas. Because I stopped just before Christmas just before. So I think it was the 12th of December.

00:22:33:07 – 00:22:52:02

So the lead up to Christmas, you like, you have Christmas pies in your face. You got me and my stuff. Traditionally we were guys, we friends. And on Christmas Eve she got Christmas Eve drinks. And then you got a phone. Was asked about drinks. It is. It’s an alcohol fueled sort of festive period, isn’t it? Yes. It’s hard.

00:22:52:04 – 00:23:12:15

So that was really difficult. And because it’s such a short period after you start drinking the Christmas. Well, yeah. Okay. And the thing that the most difficult thing to mate with was we went I think is a Christmas Day actually, we went around to my aunt’s house and this was quite a lot less than two weeks after I’ve given up.

00:23:12:15 – 00:23:35:15

So it’s still in the very early stages. And I got my first packet, alcohol free drinks just the full pack. And I was like, well, I’m going to take this with me to my wife’s on his house. And I felt so, like, ashamed for bringing those beers. And he’s not looking back now what? why did I feel like that?

00:23:35:18 – 00:23:57:14

I felt ashamed to, like I snuck into the house. What? You’re not a real man drinking. Okay. Yeah, I saw them literally stinking this four pack about for free. Business house. Put it into that fridge by the box. And I said, and my, all these part, I don’t know, I was buying his partner spotted them and he’s like, oh, he.

00:23:57:16 – 00:24:14:23

Do you want some of them? We saw what you want your business and you didn’t sell anything. But you never even know. He knew. He knew what I was doing. I was like just in his element. And he said nothing to me about it. I was like, yeah, that was that was the. That’s in my head 100%. Yeah, I saw it because yes, I said, I’m not.

00:24:14:23 – 00:24:37:05

I’ll trust him. I can trust him with this bit. I thought I was hot, I spent like every day drinking around you like this, this one coming out of champagne. This bit is shorts. Not having been through that such a short period of time. After you are sober, what would you recommend to somebody else who’s just got sober and it’s coming to Christmas or another family thing?

00:24:37:08 – 00:24:56:18

What what’s your strategy? What do you what do you recommend for them to do this with? The thing that I did that I think will be much me and I don’t have to work for everybody because everybody’s different. I think if if you’re trying to completely remove alcohol because you’re an alcoholic, then you might have that stick is the thing.

00:24:56:18 – 00:25:18:20

Neither is try and get without coffee. Old timer tips. Yeah, and that’s the drinks I like. So are they good? Yeah. I mean, for me personally, my issue was using the packet. Alcohol was something I didn’t really do occasionally on my neck of each legion just to get to sleep at the end of the night. But alcohol was not really my thing.

00:25:18:22 – 00:25:41:23

I was Pablo Escobar. The alcohol. Alcohol wasn’t really my thing. And it was funny. I was in Spain a couple of weeks ago with a friend of mine, and, he he’s sober. I think he’s sober about ten years now. And, he went got some some Guinness. I think it was his blue chocolate. And I said to me, I said, what does that taste like?

00:25:42:00 – 00:25:58:23

And he said, it tastes just like the same for me. And I said, okay, just if I want to have a can every morning before I go to work. And I was like, if it can mess alcohol, forgive cannot because we go to work every day, we should do it. I’m an alcoholic. This is my solution. I’m like, it’s up to you.

00:25:58:23 – 00:26:20:12

But he was not to the canopy. Every morning if we going to work, I guess this will work to pick the most up. Because if he’s doing that, he’s still drinking alcohol. Then later in life it’s getting him by and it’s. It’s keeping him from drinking still. And that’s great. Yeah. did you find that your son is very supportive when you when you finally go.

00:26:20:12 – 00:26:45:22

So just under three years ago. Yeah, I would say so, but my wife was very, very happy. She said she doesn’t have to look after very well. Yeah. Not my wife is amazing. And she, she always has been looking after me for support me through fish fry stuff. And it’s it’s been a roller coaster because everybody’s been really good about it.

00:26:45:22 – 00:27:07:04

And I think because I was so up front about it and I did it apart from obviously the session around the base at the beginning because I was like talking about my socials and just being really upfront with family and friends about it. They didn’t ever really question it. It’s interesting you say everyone’s been really good about it, which is great, right?

00:27:07:06 – 00:27:24:13

But I’m wondering, is there something inside of you to say that the question whether there were going to be you doubting whether you’re going to be as supporting as good as they were? Oh, yeah. It could have been horrible in my head. I would say it would have been way more of a struggle for me had people been difficult.

00:27:24:13 – 00:27:45:17

I’d say I have been questioned in my life. Why not drinking at night? Every, every instance of I don’t have to watch football, but while you’re drinking and just the thought of having to explain all this is up in that, like every five minutes, you just, so you know, switch your dreads. Yeah, yeah. So I know that when people used to recommend below for me, there was a lot that I don’t do that anymore.

00:27:45:17 – 00:28:07:00

And you have to explain yourself to somebody else. I don’t know whether it’s because that makes them feel a bit more comfortable. If you do something with the alcohol drugs, it makes it a bit uncomfortable. But you know, this is something you said very early on that you were very uncomfortable with the social environment and alcohol should ease that situation.

00:28:07:04 – 00:28:41:04

So how is your social anxiety now in those environments, now that you’re so I think a lot better. But I think that’s because I’ve done other stuff to help that social anxiety. So just so usually excuse my feeling. Sorry everyone listening. And you know what I do give you? I’m doing stuff like this. So I think for me, starting the Stress Issues podcast was part partly to get through the anxiety depression of lockdown.

00:28:41:04 – 00:29:11:01

But so help me be a more kind of positive, comfortable person, comfortable with me and I. I can do that. I can have done this for like five years. I just couldn’t possibly grow out of it. Yeah, yeah. And now that you have no stimulants or alcohol, I should say to help you in those situations, you’ll find that you’re developing the tools you need.

00:29:11:03 – 00:29:35:07

Yeah, yeah. And I think if I were to still be drinking, I would have nowhere near as good as far as what I’ve done, I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t be at this point now with, for instance, I did that first couple of years, got out in 2020 ten. You I did, ten now 110km runs on certain ten kilometers and I take on it.

00:29:35:09 – 00:29:51:09

And that was when I wasn’t drinking. If I’d been drinking on the fly cup, however, I could not. I felt less looking around. Take my time, you know? So it’s just stuff about personal achievements. Like about a number of friends, fitness stuff. You’ve done marathons? Yeah, yeah. Do you know, it’s funny because, I’ve got a podcast as it come out.

00:29:51:09 – 00:30:18:14

Yeah. And I think it was breaking up before it. with a guy called Charlie Engle in America, and, his was alcohol and drugs, and he got sober 31 years ago, and he runs, a model for every year he’s been sober. So he runs an hour. He runs an hour. No. Come on. Run! He runs a mile for every year he’s been sober just like 31 years.

00:30:18:16 – 00:30:43:19

So every this year just ran 31, 31 miles. Right. So we’re on this podcast, the states in 31, 31 miles. Wow. That’s impressive. But he said when I broke my addiction to alcohol and the taxi runner, he said, I actually went and ran the Sahara Desert, two marathons a day, half in the morning, hours in the evening for 120 days straight, 2620 days.

00:30:43:21 – 00:31:02:04

And it’s interesting, you know, what he said to me was the plane that he put himself through was a reminder not to go back. Did you think there when you talk about the marathon and doing those runs, you know, you’re pushing yourself, you you push yourself to the extreme. Do you think that was beneficial to help you remain silent?

00:31:02:06 – 00:31:22:13

Yeah, I think so. I think so, because I should have been out. What about the fitness? Because to do that amount of running in that space of time, you have to have a certain amount of fitness and, offset it to a lot of friends and family are able to avoid kind of the hang over. oh. Got a hot drink?

00:31:22:15 – 00:31:51:04

going out for a drink in the afternoon or something that has run, get all of your socks off. But just going out and half, I don’t know, just having that. I got I got about 75 runs in a day, 75. And I was like, I’m struggling now. I’ve got a bit because this, this is tough. And bearing in mind before that, all that kind for two weeks still run through that.

00:31:51:06 – 00:32:13:14

It was not really hot summer. So it’s like 35, 40 degrees in the UK and I’ve Covid I’d still run through that. I was like 40, 40 minutes from Ohio and I thought I would have done it all the other just be like not going. So I think just knowing that I’ve done these runs and done this situation for myself, I’m paying money for charities on time as well.

00:32:13:14 – 00:32:33:09

It was it just yeah, I felt I did, you know, what I did. And listening to that I hear you learn to become comfortable with being uncomfortable. That’s what you did during those runs. That’s what you did when your legs were finished and you still carried on. You got comfortable being uncomfortable. And I think that’s what you need to do to deal with addiction.

00:32:33:11 – 00:32:53:17

You got to get comfortable. If you’re not comfortable with the function of your knees anymore. And there giving be some challenging times, do you find that you’re running? Was a good analogy, a good a good way of coping and dealing with being sober? Just stress in situations like that. Yeah, it’s I mean it’s it’s a, it’s an outlet from a lot of health problems.

00:32:53:19 – 00:33:22:20

It always has been like I’ve used running for, years and years. I was, I had to take it seriously. Seasonal stuff. Yeah. Dude, you know, since you’ve been sober, what benefits have you found to your mental wellbeing and your your financial stability and what materialistic things that you have that you never had before? So I think I’ve suffered the same kind of thousands of times in a year, which is probably like what?

00:33:22:20 – 00:33:47:05

What did you spend a year drinking? I don’t, I, I can honestly you can tell me that it probably be in the thousands and thousands, which you saved because you don’t have to have annual, what led you to finding that to founding the stress sessions was that just purely through lockdown, as you say, you decide it’s to good for now, but yeah.

00:33:47:10 – 00:34:09:05

Yeah, it was it was, it was not. And it was to boost my myself in social situations too. It’s like what you just said to put yourself in those uncomfortable situations, make myself feel uncomfortable by speaking to people on a podcast. I’m not necessarily spoken to in my life. That’s that’s best show of me. So I put myself in that situation.

00:34:09:05 – 00:34:36:21

Someone’s overbearing. Yeah. And that’s one of stress sessions is bullying, but it’s not. And the son said the whole concept of the actual title stress session is really this is my stress session interviewing you on my podcast and seeing how I coped with it. Yeah, because every time I had a guest on, I posted myself off the for the for the first city series, I was a bit like, oh, I do this myself.

00:34:36:23 – 00:35:04:17

Well, I was sitting there like for this, coming to the camera and being like, shit. But at the end of it, you know, you’d be like, that child was so worth the time I went through before I was thinking, all this bad thing can happen. This popping can happen at it. Yeah. So I said, yeah, just and I, I read a book or I just, it’s like, called living with a seal and, it’s like, you know, your mind is.

00:35:04:19 – 00:35:20:22

So Jesse is, living with a seal. He flies a Navy Seal, which turns out to be David Goggins. This is before David Jones was famous. This is the book that kind of made him famous. So he hires this Navy Seal because he wants to run an ultramarathon which is 100 miles high for, I don’t know if it’s three months or six months.

00:35:20:22 – 00:35:34:05

I can’t quite remember the period. So, I mean, I have David Robbins for one and one day he’s just David Goggins and sort of then he says to Jesse, it’s like we just sit in that chair. If he says, what do you see in that chair? He says, what do you see in that chair? Right. All not so, Jesse.

00:35:34:05 – 00:35:51:07

It’s a chance that Jones goes, oh, perfect. You’ve been there. He’s like, no motherfucker. You sit in that chair. All right, so there he is. Just you sit in his chair all night long trying to sleep. Sleeps, wakes up the next morning, says he. Go. He goes, I understand, why did you want me to sleep in this chair?

00:35:51:07 – 00:36:13:01

Being all uncomfortable all fucking night when you go beautiful bed in there and you’ve got an amazing place, he says, because your life is so comfortable, how do you deal with things that are challenges if you’re not used to dealing with discomfort? And that’s what you said. That’s why I quote that line from when he says, you got to get comfortable, be uncomfortable, and really, that’s what you’ve done.

00:36:13:01 – 00:36:31:14

You put yourself in a scenario where you knew you have social anxiety or you knew you had anxiety, period. Where you feel kind of stressed, and then you developed a podcast where you could interview people and put yourself in a situation that you had to deal with and had to cope with without, you know, to begin with it was really.

00:36:31:14 – 00:36:54:23

Yeah. So that’s how I started with alcohol. Yes. With Buffalo, my first exercise was called the one with the Secret brisket. secret. I literally saw that speaking to myself. Well, except for episode six, the first series. Yeah. Why don’t you just get a glass of whiskey? And I was like, this. This is me. And now that you off, stage.

00:36:55:00 – 00:37:25:09

But what was it like the first podcast after you stopped drinking? I can’t remember it was. You don’t remember? But it was awful. It’s weird because you feel like you feel so much more comfortable in what you’re saying. You’re more levelheaded. you know that you’re not going to fuck up because you get a drink. Yeah. I think there’s a lot less stigma with, being sober nowadays than they used to be, for sure.

00:37:25:11 – 00:37:50:22

because they didn’t used to be sober parties. They didn’t used to be alcohol free, you know, beer, spirits, etc.. Do you find that’s easier for you now? A lot easier, yeah, I so I actually gave up drinking, I think it was 6 or 7 years ago for six months. Okay. Because I was trying to for myself. And it’s the first time I’ve ever done my friends.

00:37:50:22 – 00:38:19:15

I was a bit like, I want to get a good time in this, and I think I just have a lot of it, which is really annoying. But I didn’t drink, so I gave up for about six months and there was so little alcohol free attendance. This is literally nothing. Nothing. Those two beers and maybe a wine and I was about it, but I was I a it and there was no as far as I was aware, there was no like there is no sort of Instagram groups or Facebook groups.

00:38:19:15 – 00:38:38:14

So from what I was aware of, there was nothing that was just me trying to not drink for six months. And now when I stopped and I think you realized what there is out there until you stop drinking, that there is so many other people in that same situation that try and do the same thing for one reason or another.

00:38:38:16 – 00:38:55:07

But there’s a big group of them and everybody supporting each other, and that they just want to be supportive. And I thought that would not work. And it’s off. I’ve been a part of so many different networks. I mean, Instagram, but it’s been it’s been quite a bit some really bad people for it. It’s good, it’s good.

00:38:55:09 – 00:39:24:20

And what advice would you give to someone else who is struggling with alcohol addiction or dependency on side? It’s it’s not as simple as saying just stop. It’s it’s nice. And you say whatever you want to do is try, try and try, try something different. What what is what’s that? What’s an alternative? drink or drugs that you can turn to.

00:39:24:21 – 00:39:51:13

That’s a positive thing that can replace the addiction. And also, that’s what I’ve tried to do with my life. I’ve done stuff I have never, ever done before because I’ve. Now I drink, I get joy in lots of other probably really simple little things that I’ve turned to because I’ve stopped drinking. So I think try and replace those things if you want to.

00:39:51:13 – 00:40:18:24

If you’re addicted, it’s going to be a probably long, difficult road to to give you up, but try something different, fun. Find something that you really love and and and make that your addiction. Stuff the drink for drugs. Exactly. Science that you’re passionate about and become addicted to the thing you’re passionate about the gym, training, running something on and get some help to deal with the addiction in the process.

00:40:19:01 – 00:40:38:05

That’s what I think the solution is, I really do. You’ve got to find the right job, and while find the right help, you need to put structure in your life for sure. Look, it’s been a pleasure having you here, coming clean with me. Thank you for coming. Thanks so much. My pleasure.

00:40:38:07 – 00:40:53:16

Did the Cavaliers work offensively. You know I was I could. It’s not I didn’t feel I was pretty much just running. Yeah you do that. Yeah it’s really good. You might be a lot less.