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Joining me in studio today is Paul Sculfor. Paul was the original male supermodel. His million dollar face graced the covers of magazines, billboards and international fashion campaigns. Fire post Golf and I’m head judge with Abbey Clancy on Britain’s Next Top model. He regularly walked the catwalk for Armani, Versace, Burberry and Louis Vuitton. Money, power. What do you think?

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You lost over the years because of your addiction? I lost a lot of money, put figure on it. In all probably about 4 million pounds, which is painful. WOW. So I know I spent a quarter of 1 million pounds on drink. Yeah, but it’s missing out on business too. Some not turning up, not being there and saying the right thing.

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I went to see my agent, shed a tear in her eye and I was. I was mad, I suppose perhaps it’s because you spark’s gone. A friend of mine, Jane, said to me, there’s a party in Bel Air tonight. I said, but don’t drink and don’t do anything Coke, because there’s a lot of important people there. A friend of mine to come over, and he said, should we do couple pills. So we took couple pills.

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And, I drove to this place

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Hello, I’m Elliott Ward, addiction specialist, and welcome to another episode of Coming Clean with me. Joining me in studio today is Paul Sculfor. Paul was the original male supermodel. His million dollar face graced the covers of magazines, billboards and international fashion campaigns. He regularly walked the catwalk for Armani, Versace, Burberry and Louis Vuitton. Paul served as a judge on Britain’s Next Top model and has hosted countless prestigious fashion awards.

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Welcome, Paul. Thank you for joining me. Thanks, Elliott. Pleasure. Well, Paul, let’s just start right at the beginning. Tell me about your story about growing up and your childhood in your family. Yeah. So I was brought up in a place called out Mr.. Which is the end of the line. Not in a bad way. It’s, a little Victorian town.

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And my family. My father was from Canning Town, and my mother was brought up just by Chigwell. And her parents were from Hackney. So it’s a very East End, family. And, as I say, I was brought up in Upminster, which is. It’s a nice place. It’s quiet. and so I thought it was pretty much a normal childhood.

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my dad worked. He was a docker, and he worked for shifts, so we didn’t see much. Is it grafter? It was a real grafter. And if he wasn’t doing that, he was doing extensions and digging footings and stuff. So he was just a worker and worker. And, so I was brought up really around my mum and her sister and her friends.

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But that’s a really good man. he had a, incredibly tough upbringing, and, he got taken away from his home quite a few times. And the last time was, I think he was 11 or 12. And he got took her, took to a convalescent home, where he stayed for five years. And, he was the only one on the bus leaving Canning Town going.

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Great. I’m getting out of here, basically. And, so he doesn’t have an eastern accent. And in this place, it was, I don’t think it’s a military convalescent home, but the guy was on the military run. It took a liking to my dad and taught him how to eat so they would have meat once a week. The poultry.

00:03:20:14 – 00:03:42:20

And they pretty much mostly cooked vegetables. And, and he taught them how to train. So my dad was really disciplined, became body builder back in the 60s. Oh, and, he was on stage at Arnold Schwarzenegger. Wow. And he used to the only reason I know that is because my mum told me, she showed me he’s got loads of gold medals and a couple of silver medals.

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And I was like, what are these? And they’re like, oh, your dad’s. But he won’t tell you about it. Really? Yeah. And he was I’ve learned a lot of the discipline for my father, but he had some. He could get angry. And I understand now is a man is a lot of unresolved stuff from his childhood.

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And, in fact, I blame my dad for a lot of stuff. But now, looking at myself and in hindsight, he’s done incredibly well. And, actually, he’s a good father, and that’s helped me a lot. and my mum was super loving and, we had a very close relationship. She was, very ill when she was 35, so I was probably about nine.

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And she spent a year and a half on and off in the London hospital, which we thought was cancer, but it was new. Our fire burner and, I won’t do my laundry and with that, but when I used to have Rouse, I used to be on my mum’s side a lot and look after her, and I was very protective over females.

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And, when we, when she was, in hospital, I was probably nine, and it completely threw me in life. And then my, my grandma just died as well. And my dad’s very matter of fact, he’s like, tell unions that, by the way. Not in a horrible way, but that’s how he saw things. Black and white. Yeah. So as a kid and I was very sensitive, I don’t know why I whether I was born that way, but I was very intuitive and very sensitive.

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But I didn’t have the ability to communicate, so I’d ask deep questions. I remember being 4 or 5 and asking, what is infinity? You know, who are we? What’s going on? And picture stuff like, who are my parents? How am I with them? You know? it just was a natural thing, but I never got any answers. It was, oh, you think too much or all this or whatever.

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so I felt like I shut a lot of my self down and just became meat and potatoes, which was very boring for me. And, as I got a little older, we, I mean, so much stuff. But as we got older, we used to, I trained my my dad’s cousins were on boxing gyms, boxing gyms, and, so we used to, I used to train.

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And he took me to it was Lyons gym down and, Yeah. Yeah. So what? Those cousins he took downstairs gym, and, I was 13 at the time, and I just wanted to please my father. He was hard to please, but that’s probably because he was too busy and wasn’t present. But it was hard to get anything out of him.

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And, I think I just wanted to cuddle off my dad. You know, I got it once when I come out the Priory. ten, 20 years ago, I cuddled him and he was like that, and I thought, I just want to give me a cuddle. He’s that old school old, oh, proper old school. And then I realized, now that handshake with him is a hug.

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You know him, you know, that’s that’s that’s fine. I’ll get that. And a little look and a nod, and I understand this is his love, you know? And, can I ask you a question before we get here, please? Knowing that having your dad like that. What are you like with your kids? It’s a really good question. I am super affectionate.

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I always bend down to their level and look them in the eye and ask them, are you okay? What’s going on? My eldest is she could be on the spectrum. Not in a bad way, and she needs to know what’s going on next and what we’re doing. And she doesn’t like loud noise and stuff, so she’s my little buddy.

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So we. I took her through everything, even when she was like a few months old, I explained. So we’re going to change in nappy. This is what we’re doing. So I’m, I probably I’m not over the top, but I make sure I’m there and I make sure I’m present. Okay. Because you can be in the room of your parents and not be present.

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But as a child you feel like you’re not loved because you just want their attention. You think you’re like that now because of how your father was to you. Then? Yeah. I think the desire to have an intimate relationship with my dad, as in intimacy to me, is revealing who you really are and sharing that knowledge with each other.

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And I didn’t have that. and again, he’s a great guy. I don’t blame him for that. But that definitely had an influence on how I want to communicate, because I felt that I had so much as a person to talk about. It’s a question, but I don’t have the skills to talk or question. I didn’t know, you know.

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Okay. And then tell me how you got into modeling. I, yeah, I got, I got, scouted three times on the King’s Road from like, 19 onwards. They just come up to you. Is that what you mean by that? Yeah. So, yeah. So scouting is literally you get people who are paid to do scouts. They go out to person.

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They say, do you want to be a model? They’ll take into an agent and they’ll get a commission. And if they’re smart, they’ll get a commission for like five years. And, I was boxing at the time. I was getting into a bit of trouble. I was buying and selling cars, doing some construction work, and, I just I’m like, no, I’m fine, I don’t know, interested.

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And, on the third time, it was a lady who was really lovely, and she. Look, can I just take some pictures? And I was like, fine. She took some pictures, took them to an agency called So Damn Tough on the Kings Road at the time. They were like, no, not for us. And then she walked me down to models one where Davina McCall was head booker and I didn’t have great skin at the time.

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I bit of acne on my cheeks and, Davina was like, well, let’s just see how you go for a couple of months. And then she turned me down and then I think it was a year or so later, I was in hospital and my appendix out, and my mum gave me a brown envelope and said, oh, you’ve won.

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Something was I didn’t send for anything. So I opened it and they said, you’re down to the last 50 people of the face in 92 with select model agency, and here’s 200 pounds for clothes voucher and you get a vacation or a holiday after. Yeah. So I was in hospital and I was like, you know what? I got nothing to lose.

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I could do a holiday, a new wardrobe, this go. Why not exactly. So on, at the end of the week, I went up there. It was in, at limelight. You know, Gary Stritch was one of the judges. I’d met him through the boxing fraternity a couple of times, and, Yeah, I just went out there to see if I could get this holiday and I end up winning.

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Penny Lancaster came third, on the girls side, and, it took two months of phone calls for me to actually go out there because I only wanted to have a holiday, and she. She was crafty, tended agent. She said, there’s nothing for you until you come in the office and work. so that’s how it started. Well, yeah.

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And tell me, was there a family history of alcohol or substance abuse or addiction? So, on my on my father’s side, I think our friend had a family member a little while ago. my granddad was a drinker, and he was a gambling man, and, Eastender. Yes, he was quite mysterious, actually. He didn’t have an eastern addiction either, but, yeah, he was.

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He was in Canning Town, but he he my dad told me that he basically bit away a couple of houses. He was really smart. My granddad and I didn’t. I didn’t really know him too well because of the relationship my dad had with him early on. so when I was older, I try to befriend him is quite, quite curt, man.

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Good looking fella. Really, really nice guy, but quite mysterious. Very funny. Great voice, good singer. And he used to, he used to this little trick, which he never showed me, but he. Would it give you a calculator and say, give me any numbers, and you let him up that quick? Like, really super quick. So he’s a smart fella, but, a closed book and, well, just of that generation, I would say.

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And, I tried to get to know him when I was 17, as much as I, as much as I could. And, Yeah, I it was, it was his it that would have had that if anything. Yeah. But my dad, because of his discipline, he definitely had some drinking bouts when my mum was ill. So I know now he was dealing with it in that way.

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and yeah. So there’s lots of times he’s quite a mess, but he’s not. I don’t believe in alcohol at all. And how old are you when you first started using alcohol and taking drugs and what was how did you get into that? What was the reason behind it? Yeah. So it’s it’s a funny one. I, I, I swore I’d never drink always and I’d never smoke and drugs was a no no.

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So my dad always said a mantra of if you’re a drug addict, you’re weak. You know, they’re just rubbish. And, but you can have a drink with your friends. And, and it was my memories of early stuff with pubs and clubs. My parents, was nice. The smell and the the sort of feeling as a young kid, because we used to sit there, our coats when we go to sleep and they’ll have a drink and a laugh and that’s it.

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But what I noticed as I was getting in my teens were, well, alcoholism is and some of my dad’s friends who were turning into our colleagues or the violence around it. You know, that’s one thing I still have anxiety about when things kick off and I can sense, you know, when someone’s drinking, they’re getting loud and they and you can feel their energy change.

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Not in a nice way and horrible way. I still have an allergy against that, but it it put me off and I saw more and more of that. And as a went out as a teenager, Gary Oldman made a film called The Farm. I don’t know if you know it vaguely his first film. There’s a great scene where they’re in a golf GTI cross black cave, spinning around across the football fields.

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Well, where I lived in Upminster, at the back of Upminster, there was a place called Cranham, and then there was Emmerson Park in Hornchurch. So the Emmerson Park Boys, with a Hornchurch posse. And then you had the Cronin boys and the Cronin boys and more old school and, and the boys of the money from Emerson Park. So there was, it was a massive robbery when I was at school.

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So we’d go to our school not missed, we’d go get the bus, to the swimming pool, and the winders would come in and there’d be baseball bats and lots of stuff going on. The some of the boys was in the paper a lot. and I, I always hung around in between both groups, but I didn’t like the drinking the drug side early on.

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So my first drink was 15. we went on holiday for the first time. Temuka. And what? That said, just be careful, because these boys really drink. And I was like, fine. And so I went, it’s party first night. Wanted to belong. They want to be seen in my I want to be one of the lads woke up in the morning.

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Absolutely. I felt like I’ve been poisoned on the floor. I had a towel against the hotel bathroom door at run. The bathroom overflowed. I was just lying in there moaning that I didn’t know what a hangover was. I had no idea. I probably did poison myself and my mum come in and basically said, you just have a hangover, get over it.

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And I didn’t drink for probably a year and a half. Two years after that, the pain of that was sufficient to put you off for a period of time. Yeah, well, I didn’t like being sick as a kid, I hate it. I used to find a lot and be sick, and I hate that feeling. So it was it was great.

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It put me off. But then when I started to drink, there was almost an internal ominous warning that this is quite nice, that this makes you feel stronger, better looking, sort of funny, and makes you feel a bit more relaxed. I realized I really was uptight. I had a lot of fear running my life, and I didn’t know it was fear that as a teenager would come out as rage and anger and,

00:16:05:13 – 00:16:31:14

And there was one day I remember one day we basically went over to midnight drinking and went back to the pub the next day. And I never really sobered up that night. And, and I thought, wow, okay, I understand what that is now. And, I kind of tried to control myself for a long time after that. but I was never a full down drunk because drugs come into play level you off.

00:16:31:16 – 00:16:57:17

Yeah. So over what timescale did your consumption and usage increase and how did the drugs come in? Yeah. So like I said, I was really against drugs. but the first time I used cocaine was a friend of mine was dealing, and, it was a Saturday night. We were on this whatsoever actually, at this point, I would say I was probably so starving.

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So I’d probably say 17, 18. Okay. And, I just had it. I was like, I have a little bit just a little, little line. And, what had happened that he’d put acid in everyone’s drinks about a half hour before, right, without telling us. Okay. All right. So it just burnt my nose a little bit, didn’t think anything of it.

00:17:21:02 – 00:17:38:06

And, I was trying to stay in control and then obviously, this it was a purple, right then it was all completely off. I heads all night, and, I just I wanted to leave this building. I just drove, I was just driving for hours. that’s the first time, so I didn’t really have an immediate effect.

00:17:38:08 – 00:18:00:08

Some people say they had it, and that was it. They was lit up. That wasn’t my case. But the second time, I was with a friend of mine. How long after that event was? Let’s say that was probably. I’m not sure. Probably. Probably a year or so. Okay. I really was cautious when it really started to get me.

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I was modeling then, so it was probably 21. Okay. 22 that’s when, everyone was really partying, you know, it was right. Because because at that point you’re moving into your career, you’re starting to get seen and noticed and you’re around other people who are using the people I was with anyway, were using. Okay. a lot of people ask me about fashion.

00:18:21:22 – 00:18:40:15

Was that was that the crux of what happened? He saved my life because, to be honest, I would probably just be, buying and selling motorbikes. Or I’d probably gone into property by then and just been a pub boy and straight down the pub and a lot of guys that was down the pub. I went to some on here anymore and some got in a lot of trouble.

00:18:40:18 – 00:19:07:23

So fashion saved my life. and why is because once I got the taste for it and once I got the opportunity, I really desired to be, the best I could be in that business. So I never stayed in one country mode two months for about eight years. So I’d come close to getting into trouble, and then it would fall off and then, you know, and then fashion seasons would end and we’d just go and party in between, so.

00:19:08:04 – 00:19:26:06

Oh, I see. So while the season is taking place, you’re kind of sober, but when you’ve got those gaps between it, it’s like, yeah, I’m a free I’m a free spirit now. Yeah. So I’d call it, I’d call it a workaholic because I would literally if Paris was dry, I’d go, right, let’s go to Milan. Let’s see what’s there.

00:19:26:06 – 00:19:48:10

If that was dry, I’d go to Greece or go to Germany. I’ll go to New York. But, But I wasn’t sober. I felt we were drinking, but I was. I was. Controlling it, I think, would be the word. Yeah. And then. Yeah, after, after one point, it was just. At what point did it become no longer controlled?

00:19:48:12 – 00:20:07:07

I would say there was a couple of there was a couple of strong bouts at 24, 25. And then I kind of pulled the reins in. You’re already at this point an internationally recognized model, right? Yeah. And I was really big at the time. Yeah. So, you know, through the 90s, you know, how were we able to keep that addiction a secret because you were on the face of everything.

00:20:07:09 – 00:20:26:08

Honestly, I read the papers one day, and I and I saw some of the supermodels coming out of a club at 3:00 in the morning on a Wednesday off. Or how did I do that? How do you do that if you’re working? But I was working nearly every day then, so it wouldn’t have worked. But as work changed, the days got less, but the jobs got bigger.

00:20:26:10 – 00:20:45:16

So you’d work one day a week so you’d have the rest of the week off. So you’re moving up the ladder of of who you’re modeling for and therefore the return of your being paid. And therefore you can work less modeling shots, but there are higher quality level. Yeah. And as a manager, what a manager would do is it’s really hard to balance the career.

00:20:45:16 – 00:21:09:02

There’s four places in there. You can be a catalog model, commercial model. You can be TV commercials or you can be editorial. They all have different prestige and they all pay different money. And if you can try and get a bit of mold, that’s kind of the best way to have a long career. Okay, so I was doing lots of catalog and campaigns and then it moved more into just campaigns and catwalk, which campaigns pay a lot of money.

00:21:09:02 – 00:21:29:04

So at one point it was working every two weeks. So it was going to these parties on the Wednesday. And of course, did you feel you had to go to the parties to keep up with the level of recognition you had at the time? Yeah, yeah. So it’s changed now. But you know, in the 90s and early, 2000s, your agent would be telling you go out tonight.

00:21:29:07 – 00:21:48:07

So and so I was going to be there. Make sure you have a good impression. make sure you’re seen you know. So yeah, it was it was really mixed in. Yeah. I mean, I remember being 21 and living in L.A. myself and, above the gym that I was training in was, I can’t remember. It was one of the movie companies.

00:21:48:09 – 00:22:02:02

And the people come down the gym and train all the time from that movie company, producers, whatever. And they’d always say, oh, you’re going to the bar. Oh, you’re English. You should come to that party with us because it’s all about who you connect with. And then there’s all Coke and everything is is everywhere. Yeah. And then you’re in the club.

00:22:02:06 – 00:22:25:21

Yeah. That’s that. That’s one thing I would say is that, I had very low self esteem. Didn’t know it at the time. And, I didn’t have a fantastic education. So I felt a bit less then. And I just assumed everyone else did right for no reason, but I assumed everyone else did. So my ticket in was, well, if you party with people, then if you’re the best at partying with people, then you’re in.

00:22:25:22 – 00:22:46:20

Yeah, and that’s pretty much how it did work for a while. And what was the pinnacle moment? An event where you instinctively knew you had to stop the drink and drug binges because it was a binge for you, wasn’t it? Yeah. It was, yeah, it was, it was, I would say there was a couple of warning signs, I’d moved.

00:22:46:20 – 00:23:10:07

I was living in New York and Miami and, I’d been on a TV commercial in Vegas with this girl who was really my dealer, and, she’s she’s in the commercial with you. She in into commercial. But she was in Vegas at the time. Oh, I see, right. Okay. Now she had another business which was more of a front, but but, and, I finished a commercial.

00:23:10:07 – 00:23:28:07

Commercial and, she said, I’m in Vegas. You want to come over? It’s like a show. Stayed there for three days at a crazy time. Flew back home to Miami. I was absolutely beaten. And as I was walking down the corridor to my apartment, my neighbor, who was a medium, was like, Polly, okay, you don’t look yourself.

00:23:28:07 – 00:23:45:18

I was like, yeah, Mike, I said, would you like a reading? I was like, yes, please. so I went in, right? And actually, she said a couple things about my mom, which no one would have known. So I was like, okay, I’m invested in this. Yeah. And, we sat there for hours, but she said to me, she said, I’m reading your aura.

00:23:45:20 – 00:24:03:10

Yeah. She said, it’s kind of shattered. You’ve been doing drink and drugs, haven’t you? And I was like, well, maybe a little bit. And she said, you may want to seek help, okay. And I thought, I ain’t that bad. I’m fine. It’s okay, I got this, I got this licked and, she was right. But what she did say before she left.

00:24:03:10 – 00:24:24:10

Because I see your name in lights in Hollywood, I think you’re going to be a movie star. Literally. Within the week, I packed my bags. I’d left Miami and went straight to straight to L.A., joined this class. Amazing woman called Gentle Hands who these really, really short redhead Jewish women was amazing. Just that bald, sweet. But she was a fantastic acting coach.

00:24:24:10 – 00:24:47:15

I really liked her. worked my ass off for three months, graduating to a master class. Then we had a break, and then I didn’t go back. What happened? Well, I lived in this really, really cool house. It was a friend of mine initially, and we just. We just it was a party house. We just partied and partied and partied.

00:24:47:15 – 00:25:07:18

And the problem was, which was great at the time, I had a fantastic commercial agent there, and I was getting old car commercials and you get paid a fortune for car commercial. So you got money coming in? Yeah, and it’s a party lifestyle. you don’t have any commitments at that point. There’s no family, there’s no wife, there’s no kids.

00:25:07:18 – 00:25:27:18

You can do what you like. And that’s exactly what I did. And I really, really did. And. And I burned the candle at both ends. And a lot of my friends that were models, successful models moved to L.A. at the same time. So it was like, let’s go, you know? So yeah, we did. We party really hard. there was is one story.

00:25:27:18 – 00:25:51:15

A friend of mine, James, who’s, a big agent that just signed itself to someone he’s, very successful said to me, there’s a party in Bel Air tonight. He said, but don’t drink and don’t do anything, okay? Because there’s a lot of important people there, so. Okay. Yeah. No worries. And, I won’t mention his name, but a friend of mine come over and he said I should do a couple pills.

00:25:51:15 – 00:26:09:16

So I took a couple of pills, had a cup of Scotch scotches, and, I drove to this place, pulled up in the valet, went in, and by the time I’d gone in, obviously I was super high. The pills had come up. And I remember running on the lawn of this 30 bedroom mansion going, I’ll change his name.

00:26:09:16 – 00:26:28:00

But I went, James, James, James, James, how are you? James, what’s going on? James and I could just seeing. Oh, my God, what are you doing? You know, so I got a little bit like that, but, that lasted that lasted two and a half years. And after that, when I come back to England, that was my point.

00:26:28:00 – 00:26:53:12

I was like, I am, I need to, I need was that was that psychologically rock bottom, not career wise because you cruise flourishing, but addiction wise, was that rock bottom for you? Yeah hundred percent. But you say, well, to be honest, the last year and a half his work was drying up. Okay. My I, I went to see my agent and, she used to call me skinny, and she’s like, white, skinny.

00:26:53:12 – 00:27:07:23

And she looked at me and she shed a tear in her eye, and I was like, what’s the matter? She goes, what happened? I said, why? I’m with what she said. What happened to you? Just because you spark’s gone? And I felt really anger. I was like, my spark’s not gone. If you get me more work, you’ll be back.

00:27:08:01 – 00:27:23:18

But I didn’t realize it’s true. I understand now, working with people who have addiction. Yeah, it takes the light out. Yeah, yeah, the sheen goes, it goes. Yeah. It takes that. It’s like. It’s like the spirit goes. You know, it takes a spirit like the spirit of a young kid. You can see the light. They’re like, hey, how you doing?

00:27:23:20 – 00:27:38:09

That goes completely. You know, it’s funny saying that taking the spirit guy, but you know the word alcohol. Yeah. You know, it comes from the Arabic word meaning cul, our cul, right. Which actually means spirit. So that’s right. I mean, how where does that talk about taking you? Spirit. That’s exactly what it is. And you can see it.

00:27:38:09 – 00:27:54:06

Yeah. People you can you can see it with people. And I really believe that when you do work on yourself, clear, like what you’ve done that comes back, you know, you can you can get it back. It comes back. So so you hit rock bottom and you decide to do something about it. So, so what did you do?

00:27:54:08 – 00:28:09:21

So I woke up, I was in England. I woke up on the floor in my apartment. What led for the last time. And the phone was off the hook. I picked up and said hello, and there was a guy on the other end of the phone, and he said, are you okay? And I said, are you okay?

00:28:09:23 – 00:28:28:22

And he said, yes. We was talking. I didn’t know who was talking. I said, she found me. He said, no, you found me. I said, who are you? I said, I’m Dave or whatever on the phone. The drug helpline was. I said, okay. He said I was telling my story. I said, do you need help? I didn’t understand what it was, but he’s telling his story to help me.

00:28:29:00 – 00:28:51:01

And he suggested that I go to a meeting, a 12 step meeting in Shoreditch on a Sunday. It was a Sunday. so I, I had a shower, put a nice shirt on and a jacket. I didn’t know what to expect. Drove my car, pulled up outside Shoreditch church, got come out of a tracksuit on. Oh, he doing some good.

00:28:51:01 – 00:29:09:00

He said. Are you here for a meeting? I said, yeah, come in. Went into this meeting and it was a church hall, lots of people emptying coffee, all laughing, and someone sits me, you newcomer. I said, I don’t know, I’ve just got in there and they all started to clap. Well, I’ve been I’ve been on it for three days.

00:29:09:04 – 00:29:25:23

Oh, and, I just wanted to die and someone gave me a tea and I just thought, I bet they’ve put something in there. I want to have that. And I left. But what I did do is I found a friend of mine who I know he works in the city, and he’s not anything to do with jokes on alcohol.

00:29:26:01 – 00:29:45:10

And I said, I need to see you. And I drove around his house and as he opened the door, I burst out crying was, I need help. I’m in trouble. And, he and I was only having a conversation a few few weeks before saying, it’s amazing that you’ve never done any drugs in your business, isn’t it?

00:29:45:12 – 00:30:04:13

I was like, yeah, yeah, of course, because I heard it from everyone cause parents didn’t know. no one knew. And it’s something for me that being a young athlete, and a bright, bright kid was. And I promised myself I’d never go down that road. So when you find yourself at the end of that road, it’s pretty tough.

00:30:04:13 – 00:30:23:14

Yeah. And, he said, what do you want to do about it? And I said, I need you guys treatment. I need to be locked away. I can’t I can’t do anything. so it’s drove me to treatment center. And that was a start. My journey that way. You reached a point where you decide that I want to do something about this.

00:30:23:14 – 00:30:46:06

I want to help, and I’m going to seek help, which is probably the most important place to get to before doing something about it. Yeah. and then you went to rehab. you took a hiatus from your career to focus on yourself. And what did that involve? The hiatus? Yeah. a lot of crying, a lot of shame and guilt and reflection.

00:30:46:06 – 00:31:08:11

But what I did there was, I was around three weeks into the treatment center, and I decided I was going to take my life because I. I just couldn’t comprehend. I’d spent so much money, I hadn’t really burn bridges. I just didn’t turn up. And, I was just ashamed. I was couldn’t believe I’d got where I’d go, basically.

00:31:08:13 – 00:31:25:01

And I decided that I was going to take my life and, in a rehab in the first few weeks. You’re not supposed to get a phone call to the room. And oddly, at that moment, a friend had phoned me and just said, how are you doing? And just hearing his voice took me out of this thought process.

00:31:25:03 – 00:31:49:05

And then it was really strange, I thought. I pictured my mum, my nephew’s, my sister. Sorry. And, I was like, what am I doing? I can’t, I’m here anyway. What am I doing? I thought, I’m going to give this a go. And and from that decision is there’s a difference between thinking about something or making a decision.

00:31:49:06 – 00:32:06:23

I made a fundamental decision at that point that I want to get. Well, I want to be here. I want to know what is addiction, how how have I got where I got at what point did I miss all the signs or just not take notice of them? So I decided to work myself from that point and I left.

00:32:06:23 – 00:32:33:13

I signed up for another 28 days, so I was in there for six months, including daycare, and then I went to post at meetings and, I signed up for a little acting class with this guy Tom, who’s amazing, he’s sober. He’s a Buddhist monk, did psychiatry as well. And, he took me under his wing. And, I learned in that acting class.

00:32:33:13 – 00:33:01:22

So I studied Meisner technique about emotions, about handling emotions. Because all I had was zero and 100, which I learned basically. And I never knew how to do one, two, three, four, up to 99. And what I all I did was to post at meetings, therapy and, and worked with Tom in this acting class. And he really taught me how to go through all the and motions, but still stay as you are.

00:33:01:22 – 00:33:23:22

Was that an impromptu acting class like you just you just go with it and start talking and then people just add in. So now my technique comes from from Russia and it’s really quite incredible, but it teaches you to be present in the moment under full circumstances. So if you’re in a studio with microphones, it can be present in that moment and not see anything around you.

00:33:24:00 – 00:33:43:05

And the practice I do initially is holding hands, whether you’re a man or woman or whatever, and you look in someone’s eyes and you repeat. So I’d say to you, you’ve got to be shown. And you would say, I have a show, I’ve got to do this. Come on, come on. So you have a blue shirt on and I’m supposed to say, yes, I do what you say.

00:33:43:05 – 00:33:57:08

I have a I have a blue shirt on. I really just made this microphone skin. I have a blue shirt on. You have a big shirt on. I have a blue shirt on. You have a shirt. I just keep repeating it. I have a blue shirt on. You have a blue shot. I have a blue shirt. You have a picture.

00:33:57:08 – 00:34:17:15

I have a flu shot. You have a shot. I have a blue show. You look like you look frustrated the way that I see you say I look first I look frustrated, you look frustrated, I look frustrated, frustrated, I look frustrated. You let frustration, the frustration. Now you can say to me, oh, you’re smiling, you’re smiling. So you could do this for about 20 minutes, okay.

00:34:17:19 – 00:34:38:14

And what happens is you go through, you can see you’re challenging me and you see I’m challenging you, you’re challenging me, and you go through anger. Oh, love. In that moment, hierarchy of emotions. Yeah. So you can be you can you can also let people cry. But the point being is that you’re safe and you’re going through your emotions with another human being being present.

00:34:38:16 – 00:35:01:12

Yeah. So therefore you really learn to be aware. and you do that for months. That’s very powerful. It’s it’s misleading that, by the way, for my patients you should take is very good. Really works. I won’t say I do that. I can see that. Yeah. And I see that because people who don’t know how to deal with their emotions are practicing and pretending or acting to get into those emotions, which comes reality.

00:35:01:17 – 00:35:21:06

Exactly. So what this allows you to do as well is when I did it with, one guy and I held his hands and he felt like my granddad, and he melted me into pieces. My my other granddad, who was amazing. And that did it was like a big fella like yourself. And at that moment we saw love as two human beings.

00:35:21:10 – 00:35:40:00

Yeah. No, I can see. I was actually see how I could work that into a psychological strategy. I can actually see I can do that so that those poor people who have frustration or anger or upset or those emotional triggers that people have that they’re going use, like, yeah, I’ve had a bad day, I’ve had a good day, actually, because they don’t know how to switch their emotions.

00:35:40:00 – 00:35:58:00

So actually, I can figure way out to doing that. Exactly. Because what happens is subconsciously you can just paying off of something. So what this does, it just rides through it and trains you to ride through that emotion. And then you go, oh, I’m right. And this is kind of it’s very good, very clever. who did you turn to for help?

00:35:58:02 – 00:36:19:21

Was this that friend or was it other people? No. So it was a friend initially, and then, I realized that if you want help, you need to express yourself and be honest. So you need to be in the company of someone who’s either done some work on themselves. Yeah. Or their professional. Yeah. Because a lot of friends without.

00:36:19:21 – 00:36:41:05

Don’t be silly. I’ll just have a drink here, okay? You haven’t got a problem. And what they do is they allow you to stay in there without knowing because they can’t take the truth. That’s very true. There’s a great analogy, you know, about crabs. The way they catch crabs is they use a little pots and they put some bait in, and the crab climbs into the pot.

00:36:41:07 – 00:36:59:22

But once it’s in the pot, it’s designed in such a way that the crab can’t get back out again. And that’s like friends when you stop drinking or stop using. Yeah, they like the crabs. They’re trying to pull you back, they’re trying to pull you back, but you don’t want to go back. Yeah, that’s what happens. And there you got to be strong because you know, as human beings, we want community.

00:37:00:00 – 00:37:15:05

We want intimacy, we want friends. And you’ve been some of my friends I know I’ve been tell themselves a story for a long time. the rock star, party. Peter, whatever my name is. And when you pin them down and say, do you want to stop? And I go, what? I can’t who, who, who people going to think I am?

00:37:15:05 – 00:37:34:19

And you got to say who cares? But but you have to get to that point yourself. You know, you’ve been sober for how long now? August 1st be 20 years. 20, 20 years. Yeah, I love that, I love that. What do you think you lost over the years because of your addiction during the addiction? Yeah. During that, yeah.

00:37:34:21 – 00:37:53:08

a lot of money. I lost a lot of money. a figure on that. Yeah, I did, I still did, yeah, yeah. so this isn’t so how you did a message, not a straight spend. So I know I spent a quarter of 1 million pounds on drink, right? Yeah. Over a long period of time, because it was posh bars.

00:37:53:08 – 00:38:13:23

And I could, you know, my accountant even would find me and say what was going on. So I know I did that, but it’s missing out on business, too. Some not turning up, not being there and saying the right thing or trying to people please someone. Because I think when you’re in addiction, you have a people place someone or you’re arrogant at one moment, but you’re not yourself and you’re not reading it properly.

00:38:14:01 – 00:38:34:10

So there’s always, you know, I did a few publicity shows where it was something I thought the guy wasn’t telling me the truth. I was probably paranoid and I just pulled the deal. So I probably I’d say I’d probably say, you know, probably about £4 million. Wow. Yeah. Which is painful. Yeah. I mean, I hear this a lot because I’ve, I’ve interviewed lots of people who are very successful.

00:38:34:13 – 00:38:55:22

Yeah. And I hear this a lot because this and even the, even the person that as has a normal job right, loses a lot of money, not just necessarily what they’re paying for it, but in the lost opportunities. I mean, it’s lost opportunities. And also it was, especially towards the end, I, I think where I felt so low inside, it’s it’s weird.

00:38:55:22 – 00:39:17:15

It’s like separation of feeling low self-worth. And an ego tries to perform as much as it can to drag you up, and there’s a massive separation and a void in that. So I’d just be in a restaurant and and, you know, ten obviously it’s three grand or whatever it is, and I’ll get it. Shit. Don’t worry. And a lot of that stuff towards the end was absolutely well, it’s cringeworthy.

00:39:17:16 – 00:39:33:10

And at the time you think you’re a bit of a legend. Bad shit is quite sad. Did you have to break some of your circle with some of your tribe, some of the people you hung about with? Oh, completely. Yeah, absolutely. It’s paramount. It’s, You have to give up. someone said to me, you’ve got to give up a few things, Paul.

00:39:33:15 – 00:40:00:20

And I was like, what? Say when everything. Hahahahaha! Change all your friends. I have got some good friends from the past. What’s really interesting is people drop away from you. Yes. It’s not you drop away from them. So I would, I, I didn’t go out for a long time, so I was very nervous about it. But when I did go out and I didn’t want to drink you on a completely different level with people, and actually they pull away from you because you’re shining what they’re doing.

00:40:00:22 – 00:40:17:11

So it’s not you, it’s them. It’s exactly right. Yeah. So they fall away naturally. And it’s quite heartbreaking sometimes because you’ve you’ve had a friend for years maybe, and you’ve partied with them, but actually they’re a fair weather friend, you know, and you’ve had the intimacy through drugs or drinking. I’ve been smoking. I’m in a deep conversation. You think that’s it?

00:40:17:13 – 00:40:35:10

Yeah, but it’s not. I always say this if you take all the friends you’ve used with, whether you’ve used cocaine or with alcohol, what do you do with those friends other than using? Do you go to the cinema and you go to movies, you spend time with them, and if you do that more, then you spend time using them.

00:40:35:10 – 00:40:55:03

Then they’re probably a good friend. Yeah, but a lot of people find that they only see these people every time they meet up for a drink, every time they meet up to use. I don’t see him any other time. How is that a clear friend? Well, exactly. But you’re you know, most people aren’t aware. And if you’re going out three nights a week with mates and you’ve got a good team with you, do you go to restaurants and clubs and stuff?

00:40:55:03 – 00:41:13:19

But it’s part of that. Some of the guys that, in the last I think a few years there was, there was a, there was a group of eight of us who used to go out all the time, and it was all successful men in different property, other things. to me, I’m really close to it because term came in after me and said, I think I might be in trouble.

00:41:13:19 – 00:41:30:00

Can I can can you help me? And I was like, yeah, of course, because I’ve never been I don’t, I don’t I’m not like one of these people who’s finished smoking and start coughing and telling you you shouldn’t smoke. Yeah. I’m like, everyone should do what they’ve got out there. Everyone is wrong. Don’t do that. Don’t use that.

00:41:30:00 – 00:41:52:18

Don’t do that. Go! Get away from me. I’m really open about it because I can’t be a hypocrite. So a lot of people come to me now and say stuff. But there was a few friends that, yeah, they’re, few at that now. But, if I want a deeper relationship in life with friends, family, myself, and if you’re not after that, then you know there’s not much.

00:41:52:18 – 00:42:18:15

There is a strange question. What do you think you gained from having in the past had an addiction and coming through it? That’s a really good question. Insight. I have the blueprint of myself from my mind. I know I I’ve gained strength, I’ve gained the things I wanted to have as a kid. Knowledge, strength, discipline, freedom.

00:42:18:17 – 00:42:43:15

So I now know that, from doing work myself, I now know how obsessive my brain was and how busy it was all the time, and using to shut that off and knowing that that’s just doing what it’s doing. I don’t have to be a part of that. and I’d say, weirdly, gratitude that I’ve been through the wringer.

00:42:43:16 – 00:43:16:10

You know, when I came into The Priory where I went to North London, they said, you probably had two months to live. And knowing that, I choose how I live today, you know, and what’s your notable achievement? Since getting clean and sober was the things you most proud of and, getting married, having kids, being a good dad, which I wouldn’t be able to say before, saying no is a massive one for me.

00:43:16:12 – 00:43:37:22

I used to work at the drop of a hat when everyone’s like, you got to work, you’ve got to do this. And I just burn myself out. So I’m not, which is I want to be. But I’m happier than I have been ever. so the biggest achievement for me is knowing myself and allowing me to, you know, walk around in this planet as I can write.

00:43:37:22 – 00:44:00:23

What inspired you to. Oh, let’s start again, boys. Mind you and your wife, let me just say, if I pronounce this correctly, doctor Frederica Amati. Beautiful. Did I say well done? That’s a Frederica, a maxi to set up the Stroke Foundation. Tell us about the Stride Foundation. Yeah, so we set it up. About ten years ago, we were sitting in, in, in our place newly together.

00:44:00:23 – 00:44:20:18

And, she said, you spend 2 to 3 hours a day on the phone. Two men. Why don’t you make this some sort of business or a charity? and what that meant was, from leaving rehab, I just work with a lot of people, met a lot of people, and I’m always there to help. And, I studied mindset coaching.

00:44:20:18 – 00:44:42:08

I studied lots of other things, and, studying martial art and sobriety and, and I have this sort of urge to help people, you know, because I know what it’s like not to, to to be helped. So we decided to set it up. also because at the time I had insurance, which allowed me to go into a treatment center, a lot of people don’t or don’t have the money.

00:44:42:10 – 00:44:58:00

A lot of insurance is don’t aren’t covered in treatment center. They’re not they do for anxiety disorders and other things, but they’re not. I think there’s a change going on right now. and that’s usually because the success rate isn’t great and the success rate isn’t great because a lot of people go in there for a holiday. Yes.

00:44:58:02 – 00:45:18:04

And they want a little place to put on a no. But for the ones who really want it, it works. But if you don’t, it doesn’t like most things. And I always saw I think and also I think the other thing is this, and I think there’s some great rehabs in the country, but like anything in the world, I also think there’s some ones that are lacking in resources and lacking in what they offer to the prospective client.

00:45:18:04 – 00:45:45:22

And I think therefore the end result is even lower. I agree, but on the other side of that is that there’s some big companies that have taken over some groups and oppression upon them to do trauma therapy in two weeks because it’s six grand or seven grand and do this, and that’s too much. Exactly. You need to work yourself paced over a period of time because it’s like, you know, if you have a glass of water, you can’t put two gallons in a in a gallon cup, can you?

00:45:45:23 – 00:46:07:01

Yeah. Same thing in my view. So we we decided that, we set up this little charity. So we did, a really cool day. Got some celebrities with the, the race day. we did it with, Amy Winehouse Foundation. And then we started just from one network to someone would say, I need therapy about. I’m. I’m really got the money, and it’s okay.

00:46:07:01 – 00:46:25:20

You know, I should put you in and then a few people in its treatment. And I just started like that. Really. And then my wife got pregnant. And so it just sort of potted along. and then we decided that, treatments expensive as well. We’ve partnered with steps together recently, which is great. So we’ve got a great deal with these guys.

00:46:25:20 – 00:46:43:23

And why wouldn’t you steps together? Because I know the guy runs a, he’s in recovery, and he really believes in helping people properly. And we put a few people in, and it’s really good results. And what we do after we cloak them with guys in their area or girls in their area, and they’ll take him to meetings or we’re getting therapy off.

00:46:44:02 – 00:47:02:07

So we’re more about working on one person at a time and really doing their best to get them what we can do. And we’ve been pretty successful, a great course. Yeah. And then what we’re doing now is we’re doing the school talk program because, we had a policeman come into our school, opened the briefcase and said, if you take this, you’ll die.

00:47:02:09 – 00:47:14:08

If you take this, you’ll go psychotic. And if you take this, you’ll die. And that was it. So we do really good talks to explain, what peer pressure is. And did you have the same policeman?

00:47:14:10 – 00:47:38:22

I think I did, it’s been very interesting to talk to you, Paul, and is a question to ask every single one of my guests the exact same question. Somebody listening to this right now, today, who’s struggling with addiction, what advice would you give to them? Ask for help. And what that means is, if you’ve got it depends on the relationship to your friends, but ask for help.

00:47:38:22 – 00:47:57:01

Go online. look for something that will work for you, like someone like yourself. Or if they want to go to, a rehab. If they have no resources, you can go to a 12 step program. They’re all online. But can I see, some of that? The reason being that you’ll go there with people that have been through it.

00:47:57:03 – 00:48:11:13

If it’s for you or it’s not for you, at least you get an idea of what it’s about and what you can go to do from there. I agree, I agree, I think this and I think there are not everything is right for every single person, but you’ll find something that is right for you if you look sufficiently 100%.

00:48:11:15 – 00:48:15:20

Paul, thank you very much for coming clean with me. Thank you for your time, I appreciate that.