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00:00:00:00 – 00:00:19:00
Hello, I’m Elliott Wald, and welcome to another episode of Coming
Clean with me. Today we have a remarkable guest with us, Joe Sealey.
Joe’s not just a prolific entrepreneur, author, and TV personality.
He’s also the son of legendary goalkeeper Les Sealey, whose heroics
for Manchester United are still remembered fondly.

00:00:19:02 – 00:00:46:03
Les was a goalkeeper, helped Manchester United win the 1998 FA Cup
Final replay and the 1991 European Cup Winners Final. His sudden
death, at 43 from a heart attack, left a void not just in the
football world, but in the hearts of his family. And at the tender
age of 18, Joe’s life took a devastating turn. He suffered a career
ending injury that shattered his dreams of following in his father’s
footsteps as a professional footballer.

00:00:46:05 – 00:01:11:04
Just a week later, his beloved father suddenly passed away, and the
shock and overwhelming grief sent Joe into a destructive downward
spiral of alcohol and addiction. I isolation and ill health. Fast
forward to now. Joe has fought his way back from the brink. He takes
his sobriety and recovery day by day whilst focusing on his business
ventures and being a popular cast member of the hit reality TV show.

00:01:11:08 – 00:01:42:03
The Real Housewives Housewives of Cheshire. Alongside his wife
Nicole. Welcome, Joe. I got it right. I got there. So, Joe, tell me
about growing up, your childhood, where you grew up, what that was
like for you? Yeah. So in my childhood, I moved. I moved back a
little bit. So I was born originally in Coventry, and we all got in
the old gravel hospital in 1983, and I don’t sound like it, but all
of my family from East London and two months I was, I was born, we
moved back to London, but I left Coventry and went to Luton Town and
we lived in Berlin time.

00:01:42:03 – 00:02:06:11
So we played a little bit time for seven years. and we lived in a
place called Chingford in east London, where my mum’s family’s from.
And went, I lived there, I went to school there, junior school. and
when I was, I moved to Manchester, moved to Manchester United and
we, were there for four years before quickly moving to Blackpool to
a place called Livingston.

00:02:06:11 – 00:02:29:14
And he, he stayed there for two months and moved to West Ham United.
We ended up staying in for eight months. It was a school and then
moved back to Essex, to Loughton. So I moved around a lot. But as a
my family hung. I was what you would call normal 2.4 children, loving parents. My dad was a very normal father.

00:02:29:16 – 00:02:42:06
everyone asked me all the time what what was it like having my dad?
My dad, when we was just my dad, so I didn’t. I don’t know what else
to compare him to. but to everyone else, it was like something
special to me. And to hear me say to me, it’s just a job. It’s my
job.

00:02:42:08 – 00:02:58:17
But I didn’t realize things like, I’d come home from school at 3:00
and he was always, because players at number 1:00. And I never
realized that people’s dads weren’t at home. Six 7:00 I really
didn’t realize it till I started going to friends, as I was a little
bit older and thinking, where’s your dad? Do you know what I’m like?

00:02:58:19 – 00:03:21:14
My dad was always in those, so I had I had a great childhood, loved,
privileged to suppose I went to normal school. I didn’t earn as much
money as I do now when my dad was playing. So we lived in, like,
semi-detached four bedroom houses, but still nice. Okay. yeah. And,
your father was a tough disciplinary, and I heard, what impact his
approach to parenting have on your teens.

00:03:21:16 – 00:03:34:14
so my dad was, like, what you’d call old school. Old school ways
then. So there you go. Both out, like on the same boat as Christ. So
when he was a kid, they were they were around, and he was one of the
kids around Bethnal Green. And I think he was as long as he was
respectful, he never hit me.

00:03:34:16 – 00:03:50:06
But he would be the disciplinarian in my house. So if I was cheeky
to me, mama got in trouble at school, wouldn’t be my mum to tell me
because I work really scared him, my mum. But it wouldn’t be off
them. But if I got told to come here, you come in and you got out
and then you said sorry and you, you go home and you told me you
love me.

00:03:50:06 – 00:04:02:12
But even up to the point of his death when I was 18, I still go and
say to me, I thought I was a cinema. Is it alright if I go yes, or
or if I might involve them playing professional football when I’m
earning money? But I still say to him, is it alright, respect?
Respect. Yeah, he was big about that.

00:04:02:16 – 00:04:16:20
And you know, he like to say it like to me kiss welcoming kiss when
I went out and kiss when I went to bed. Really nice. It was nice.
Yeah, I think I would upset him. Yeah. It’s for someone who’s not
into football. Doesn’t know anything about football. As we spoke
about previously. Who did you play for? So I played for West Ham.

00:04:16:20 – 00:04:33:05
You know it. from leaving from day I left school, I went straight
into West Ham. That was all you knew? All I know, but I all I know
my whole life. So it doesn’t just start when you leave school.
You’re already in the system before that. And because, I mean, I’ve
realized this stuff now, I was born into football.

00:04:33:07 – 00:04:57:02
Everyone I was around was a footballer. My dad’s uncle was another
famous player. my mum’s side of the family. There’s two, two other
players that played for Man United and other clubs. so everyone
around me was in football, but I didn’t think about anything else. I
didn’t know about anything else. Senior DNA and I really was, can
you talk me through the events of that fateful summer when you lost
both your career and your dad in a matter of weeks?

00:04:57:02 – 00:05:13:20
Yes, I was, I was, I was, I’d say nearly 19 years old. It’s my third
full time season as a as a footballer. And in the first year of a
really bad injury, dislocate my shoulder. And I was at for 12
months. So I’ve got I’m, I’m or I ran my left shoulder. I had a full
reconstruction and I had to wear like a body.

00:05:13:20 – 00:05:28:03
So for nearly six months which pain my arms, my body 24 hours a day.
And then it took another six months because when they took it off
me, I couldn’t move my arm. So I took a movement back. But I told me
that, look, what you’ve had done is like so traumatic on your body.
Plus, you can’t keep missing 12 bones.

00:05:28:03 – 00:05:48:04
If it happens again, you are done. And nearly like two years later,
I’m in training. Just a normal training session. A diver, I think.
Do you mind if I was fight to the right? I should have held it. It
was an easy one and I spilled it. As I stood up a dive back on a
ball, put my left arm into the box, put it back in my shadow and and
I thought, I’m done.

00:05:48:06 – 00:06:09:21
I’m done. was taken to the hospital. It’s like 20 hours in
Bakersfield, and I, I remember I still remember the double doors
with Mum and Dad walking Daniel towards my start crying. That’s It’s my life really. I never got to speak about it with my dad over
because I think at that point he died ten days later of an heart
attack.

00:06:09:23 – 00:06:31:02
And, I never spoke about him. So what? I found out afterwards that
all the stuff to do with my retirement, because there’s all sort of
processes you have to go through, the money you get from your
insurance, then pay a fee in the cloud. But that was also it. I call
it Daniel. It changed. So I woke up to that day my dad died.

00:06:31:02 – 00:06:55:09
I’ve always felt there was nothing more important. I. I literally
believe that. And then when he died of don’t that football. Yeah. I
mean, sorry, just just took me for a minute. Yeah. Just listening to
you sound like the person who’s been there all your life. Yeah.
Who’s been supportive, understanding, caring, loving, nurturing and
being your your idol.

00:06:55:09 – 00:07:13:05
Yeah. He was. Who’s taking you through football to suddenly not have
that person to talk to. Obviously you’ve lost him. That’s
devastating. But also, as you said, to not have that person to talk
to about your career. Yeah. Which is suddenly dissipated before your
eyes. You know, she was the one person you could have relied on to
talk to.

00:07:13:06 – 00:07:30:03
Yeah, yeah, he was every my dad did everything for me, as in if I
needed advice, it was. But that it’s about speed. So I listen to him
achieve what he told me. Really? Oh, my whole life I suddenly didn’t
have him and I also didn’t have the other discipline off, which is
football, because football, as much as it’s like great luxury, it’s
quite regimented.

00:07:30:05 – 00:07:44:04
I mean, it isn’t like plucking chickens or being in the army, but
you are told to be at 9:00 is your aunties, your food is you, train
is like you. Everything is done for you. I suddenly lost my dad and
I, and I lost everything. So I say to people like, man, I never knew
much about the doctors.

00:07:44:07 – 00:08:00:00
I never knew that. That it’s because as a kid, I had the club
doctors and dentists because he ate that. So then I went into it. I
was playing football. When I’ve left, left, I any problem was I
didn’t know what to do. I was still going to the Western United
Dentist five years later, after I finished playing lying.
00:08:00:02 – 00:08:15:00
So I come in as a player called and what time it was. I missed the
cup because of me, but I didn’t know how to do anything. Yeah,
that’s really interesting because when we talk, come on, you’re
talking about your addiction. You know, just just to preempt that.
Yeah. When you talk about I didn’t know how to do anything.

00:08:15:02 – 00:08:28:14
And yet you turn up at the club at night and all your meals are made
for you. You finish a club at whatever time. That was 1:00. Was I
want to go to 1:00 to 3:00, and then you go home and you go to
sleep. You rest. Your body is all about training. That was
structure. You had structure, right?

00:08:28:14 – 00:08:54:21
Yeah. So not only did you lose your dad, not only did you lose your
career, you lost your structure. So when you get turned to addiction
and you’ve got no structure to fill your day, it was my day. It was
my time when I started addiction. But, you know, I think of
addiction in so many different ways. And the truth is, when I first
when I first took cocaine, when I first took the bag, the packet,
the packet, I truly believe that that saved my life.

00:08:54:21 – 00:09:11:00
At that point in my I read something that to me, well, looking back,
it I mean, I come from a background, I this is the truth. I never I
knew nothing about drugs. I’d never seen it. Right. The first time I
took the packet was the first time I seen any type of drug. How did
that come about?

00:09:11:02 – 00:09:27:24
There was a guy called Michael Edward Hammond, who was at the time,
Dannii Minogue ex boyfriend and a fight TV producer. He went to
prison a little while ago for, like going to Buckingham Palace
pretending to be a police officer. Oh yeah, I remember the guy. So
him. So I met him via in a meeting and he said, you want to come to
Manchester at the weekend?

00:09:28:01 – 00:09:45:03
I said, yeah, what do? His car drove to Manchester with him. We went
out to a place called directory. In fact, I live 500 yards from that
place there and it’s just chilling. Some guy never dinner tonight.
It used to be a nightclub. It’s in Wilmslow and it took me back to
somebody else’s at. And it was cocaine up the packet.

00:09:45:09 – 00:10:09:22
There was a packet there and he went do some of that. And I what I
would call peer pressure, I did it and it changed the way I felt and
it changed what I did and what I behave like, because before that my
addiction was probably women. And I remember at that time there was
a girl that I was going in a room with, and I took that, and I
didn’t just talk shit all night, but it made me feel better.

00:10:09:24 – 00:10:32:00
It changed the way I felt. And I think at that point I was probably
without knowing it. No, I don’t know if I would have ever committed.
So I was suicidal. My whole life was in pieces. A nuclear bomb bomb
had gone off. and that changed how I felt. I felt AP again, at that
point, which is horrible to say, really was probably.

00:10:32:01 – 00:10:50:11
And it took everything from me. You don’t see it at the beginning,
not. Yeah. It took everything for me. And I went quickly from that
point, you know, I’d go up to Manchester. This is so bizarre. What I
started because I lived in, in, in Essex, near the country Club
Interfaces nightclub. I didn’t know anyone to buy drugs off, so I
would go to Manchester once a month for these people.

00:10:50:13 – 00:11:13:06
Go that normally might be a Wednesday, might be a Saturday, but go
up there, do a big packet of a drink, come back, live normally. I
mean, it didn’t last long, probably six months. Like I knew where to
get in Essex and and it started and it was normal. It was normal
feel I wasn’t that normal when it for very long actually probably 12
months.

00:11:13:08 – 00:11:30:03
I remember two distinct occasions the first time I bought in the
daytime, I mean, we were exactly where I was. I come out of a
meeting in Woodford, I went to a building site, picked up three
bags, went back to my apartment, did it, and I thought, oh, this is
brilliant. And then my 21st birthday, so.

00:11:30:03 – 00:11:47:24
And the man who I love dearly for Chinese left there as quickly as I
could. I bought a bottle of Jack Daniels from the BP in Denton, and
I bought a quote overnight. I it’s a packet. I went back to my
apartment and sat there for two days, and I actually I do still
remember thinking is I’ve cracked this, this is the best thing ever.

00:11:48:02 – 00:12:05:05
This is what life’s all about. I don’t need to go out ever again.
It’s I didn’t I didn’t like pubs, didn’t like pubs. They like
nightclubs. I don’t like people very much most of the time, to be honest with you. So being in those busy places made me feel anxious.
I. I wasn’t there for the sex or drugs.

00:12:05:07 – 00:12:29:09
and from that point on, that’s what I did. And how often after that
you Manchester going to Manchester six months later, finding it from
someone. How often were you using at that point? At that point?
Twice a week maybe, but I’d be going to a nightclub. And I remember
once buying seven offs and then leaving. I mean, in a draw like
normal people would buy seven off, but normal people do.

00:12:29:11 – 00:12:45:03
that did not after that and that did last like that. I got one off
at every time I went out somewhere. until I went. I can’t ever
remember doing that again, to be honest with you. That’s the only
time I remember it being a little bag of boot polish in my drawer at
my mum’s at,

00:12:45:05 – 00:13:16:21
I ramped up quickly, quickly. Quicker than most people I speak. So,
within what duration? Within. Within? Well, 20 or 20. So I finished
nearly 19 at 21. I was a daily addict. Like a daily smash. Smash
myself to pieces every day. I did, so I would say from, you know,
maybe I didn’t use remember, I don’t remember the date the first
time I used, but maybe I was 20, maybe I was 19 off within a year on
my full power.

00:13:17:02 – 00:13:39:18
And when you’re using it daily, what quantity? We’re talking about
our. My worst. I was up to half an ounce. I’ll be doing 10 to 14
bags a day. And my worst idea that a drug dealer live in my ass for
free. And I still bought the drugs of him that I’m at, is that I did
that. You’re the second person I would say that I did that the
second dance at the staff row, differ.

00:13:39:20 – 00:13:55:17
They said the same thing to me. Is not the same for me. Free. Yeah,
well, I convinced him to leave his girlfriend to live with me. You
manipulated the situation so you could have the packet on hand.
Yeah, yeah, but at the same time, I was. I didn’t want him to think
I was too bad. I was also bored of other people.

00:13:55:19 – 00:14:14:09
Right. Because I couldn’t even forbid the drug data that I’m not
leaving me for free. Thinks I’m using too much drugs. You know what
I mean? Yeah. It’s crazy as this is. It’s crazy. and I was a daily
user. I mean, daily, I remember at the start, at the start, it was
it was fun. I remember thinking, oh, because I wait for three days four days.

00:14:14:11 – 00:14:35:14
And I used to think it was like, clever talk about it. I tell
people, tell my friends that were footballers, you got to try this.
This is like the best thing ever. It’s a very quickly never talking
to anyone ever again. Those people that were my friends then and the
couple I really regret, and about a couple of I have reached out to
in the past the I lost my choice.

00:14:35:15 – 00:14:56:12
No one ever left me my choice. Yeah, I mean, it’s the most sociable
drug in the world that becomes the most antisocial drug in the
world. Yeah. Isn’t that how you sum it up? Yeah, and that’s about
what sums me up to it. Say, I never wanted to socialize with it. I
don’t know why. I think it’s because I was ashamed.

00:14:56:14 – 00:15:19:22
Actually, I think it was an embarrassment inside me that when you
don’t, they would see you like this. And then the other side that
like to being on my own, you know that I don’t like being on my own.
I wonder if there is a part of you at that time that liked being on
your own, because that way you couldn’t be let down because you lost
your dad and you lost other people around you and you lost your
career.

00:15:20:00 – 00:15:36:10
And if I’m only on my own, I can’t let anybody down and nobody can
let me down. I wonder if that was a part of it. Yeah, I think, I
think I hated the world, I think I hated myself. I can remember
looking in the mirror punching and, like, screaming and and horrible
stuff that I did see myself.

00:15:36:10 – 00:15:55:15
I never did it to anyone else, really. You know, part of my family,
which are addiction effects, obviously. You know, people have to
remember that they’re the ones that go the most. I did it all to
myself, you know, no one, no one. No one really helped me push to.
I’m on. I was just on my. Yeah, I it didn’t affect your business.

00:15:55:15 – 00:16:12:02
Are you were functioning correct. Yeah. So I function at that point.
I was just trying to never most of the time at that point wasn’t up
there drunk and drunk every so often with it, but no abnormal to
have anyone drinks normally. It’s interesting. Me too. But I mean, I
was a dry sniffer. We talk about drug sniffing.

00:16:12:04 – 00:16:30:08
I’m wondering if people who are more likely to be dry sniffers are
people who are busy running businesses, or busy doing things where
they can do a line and get away with it, especially their
functioning. Right? Yeah, but you can’t drink alcohol because if
someone smells alcohol on your breath or it’s not the same buzz,
right? Is that why you think you became a dry sniffer?

00:16:30:10 – 00:16:46:01
I never liked alcohol. I seldom, I mean my using change I’ve used. I
ended up using a lot of alcohol when I was using, but I never. I
don’t ever think of alcohol. Never think I fancy a drink. I didn’t
like the taste of it. I did like I don’t like alcohol. Makes me feel
I don’t. I’m not feeling tired.

00:16:46:01 – 00:17:04:17
I don’t like it. So I think I was lucky. I find that I never tried
any other drugs. I might have done one pill once and I might smoke
one joint once a day. Like anything else, I find it. I was home, I
was safe, and I’ll find what I need. And that’s what I did for me.
But, you know, without a shadow of a doubt.

00:17:04:19 – 00:17:24:17
And I think that I was so depressed inside and so messed up the at
the bus point in my life. And I wasn’t the man I thought I was, but
I wasn’t. I learned to self-soothe or look after myself by using
that drug, and it took me a long time and a lot of work not to do
that.

00:17:24:19 – 00:17:42:17

When did you realize that that coping strategy was detrimental to
you, though? I don’t think I realize it’s coping strategy for to
for, you know, it’s 15 years, but I knew I knew by again, you know,
I think of myself as an intelligent guy. You know, I can run
businesses. I can do do deals. I knew early I was one, right?

00:17:42:22 – 00:18:06:02
I think I went to my first meeting at 22. I wasn’t stopping, but I
knew I wasn’t a what, you know, any sort of doctor. You know, this
is a big turning point for me, actually, that I could have, you
know, I went to I went to Malia and I I’ll tell you the truth, I
don’t know which side I flew about me, but so I went somebody with
my friends, I was 20, I’ll fly with it.

00:18:06:04 – 00:18:24:19
And I’ve done the seven bags I had with my in the first day with
people that I went with full price. So no one was doing it, just me.
I ended up sitting in a room with some people I never even met, and
I felt really like terrible. So I was a bit upset. The day after I
ran my mum, she said, come on, come on, sit there awake.

00:18:24:21 – 00:18:45:14
Drugs. They’re at that point in who I couldn’t, so I suffered that
way. And when I come back, the club doctor come to the house said, I
want to see the doctor. I told him and I said to him, I think I’ll
kill my dad. Said, my career ending causes an attack, and I know
medically it didn’t. I was a it was a freak thing happened to my dad
into one shot.

00:18:45:15 – 00:19:06:16
But in my head I thought, I kill my dad. Anyway, at the time, I
can’t tell you you didn’t. as an adult. Now, I think you should have
lied to me. Even if he felt that right. Because I was 18 year old
kid in a mess, I didn’t. I never asked for help again after that
point. For a long time.

00:19:06:18 – 00:19:23:14
For a long time, I never went to see anyone again for five, six
years. Seven years. Why would you? Why would you go to someone when
already you tried to go to someone who’s already looked at you and
blame you for that? Yeah. Rightly or wrongly, that’s what he did.
Yeah. And I don’t. In my long time, I needed to be dead.

00:19:23:16 – 00:19:35:09
So someone you looked up to, though. Yeah. Yeah. And he’s a nice
guy. In fact, I bumped into him a little while ago. Was at a
different football club. Now, he didn’t do it with animosity. He did
it without realizing. He did it because he thought that’s what I
was. You know the right answer. But wow. So he’s.

00:19:35:09 – 00:19:53:09
You don’t tell people that? Yeah. My research has brought this to
me. He says you never wanted to carry on, but just couldn’t stop.
even each time you did it, you knew you didn’t want to use it. You
just couldn’t stop yourself. Explain that to me. At the end of my.
There’s many phases, my ego and the end of my what I would call up
my every every using.

00:19:53:09 – 00:20:15:14
I was sniffing a gram of God, just fight because I’m in my. I don’t
want to get rid of it. Oh, you’ve boy, but now I want to get it
going as fast as possible. Gone. But I’m getting more. I mean, I was
my my physical. I was in such a mess that my eyes I would not be
like, bleeding.

00:20:15:14 – 00:20:36:16
And, as I was doing it because everything in me was rotting, because
I was in it, I was in it, out, you know. So I’m fine like grandma
and I’m bang, it’s gone. I’ve. I’ve got seven more or I’m buying
more. But then when I’ve got, I don’t want it. And I had that
torturous thing that, you know, a lot of dough where you don’t want.

00:20:36:17 – 00:20:48:13
It’s a bit like when you’re in the day to day, lots of fun. But if
you answer the phone, I’ll buy it. Do you know that one? You know,
so I know that one. you know, if you don’t text me back, I’ll
WhatsApp him. But if done, WhatsApp me back, cause he’s going to
WhatsApp me back because he’s job.

00:20:48:15 – 00:21:06:07
Yeah. So, all of that went on for a long. It went on for a long
time. I mean, the worst point I didn’t sleep once for ten days, and
I know it’s ten. I only reason that’s ten days. My mum went South
Africa. I went, you come back, I slept, I fell asleep in my office
chair and I slept for two and a half days in a chair.

00:21:06:09 – 00:21:30:01
I a swivel chair in my office and I remember waking up that day. My
mouth was full of my mouth was a mess, bleeding. I didn’t really eat
and and drinking milkshakes like we all do get. Yeah, a milkshake to
make your milk make you feel better. and cherry tomatoes I use a lot
in cherry tomatoes. thinking I’ve got to sort this out or I’m going
to die because I was dying is a truth.

00:21:30:03 – 00:21:46:08
Had all this, all the glitz and glamor. When I started my life. I
got a lovely life on the outside. But inside I was dying. And, I
changed my using. I didn’t stop, I changed after that. Ten days from
every day to.

00:21:46:10 – 00:22:04:14
What I would call normal, but not normal. And during that sleep
deprivation, did you experience paranoia now? I went to bed with her
a couple of times. I did see once, like Antoine out of wall, but
only once. I’ve heard you talk about that. But I saw it once. It was
about three days into once about stops I insects around out there.

00:22:04:14 – 00:22:21:18
Well, I didn’t get to much. I was a little bit through certain
periods. Curtain twitchy when I did daily living in my ass. I worry
about a place. Yeah. I mean because I was close to my own paranoid I
because it was true to me because I don’t want to get in trouble,
you know, and I was getting in trouble in other things in my life.

00:22:21:18 – 00:22:43:24
And, and doing silly things and driving and you know, you know, why
wouldn’t I drive, you know, it doesn’t make sense, does it? Not. So,
you know, there’s a question that, it’s very standard when you’re
talking to somebody about addiction. And the question usually is how
long have you been clean and sober? And when you were asked your
answer, I loved your answer, and I loved your answer.

00:22:43:24 – 00:23:06:11
I loved your answer because that’s the answer I give. And I’ve never
had a guest. And I respect all my guests. I’ve never had a guest up
until you who’ve said the same answer as to how I feel. So I’m not
going to say it. So tell me, what’s your answer today? Explain that
when I first went to meetings, I’d go in and people would say, five
years sober, take put your hand up, ten years sober, 20 years sober.

00:23:06:13 – 00:23:30:21
I’d ask if I ballocks, you know, here or I can’t get there. And it
would. I know they do it to help you. It didn’t help me. It stopped
me. I was jealous, I was insecure, paying for. I couldn’t do it. So
I decided that I’m sober today at the minute. I was sober yesterday
and I’ve been sober quite a few days now, but I don’t know what’s
gonna happen tomorrow, and I don’t know what happened to afternoon.

00:23:31:02 – 00:23:50:16
But if I start thinking about it, it doesn’t work for me. And it
doesn’t matter because anyone at it can be sober today, even if it’s
for an hour. And I can do that. I can’t do six years. And that’s
why. That’s why it doesn’t matter, actually. You know what type of
person in the meantime? So I was gonna be a person one day.

00:23:50:16 – 00:24:10:12
Sober was more real. And what avenue did you go down to get help
with your addiction? I went to I meetings and semaines at the start.
I did things that I didn’t want to rehab and then I’d leave. Yeah.
Like a guy giving up a guy blowjob for the. And then I mean I ain’t
doing that to tell me that’s not for me.

00:24:10:14 – 00:24:33:21
What’s that mean? I not going and, and that would be it. And I’ll go
see a therapist every so often, and then I’m good at manipulating
them and then, stop going to that one because of that one. Yeah. I
do this to keep people happy. And the biggest turning point for me
is I met my wife, who’s not never taking drugs, you know, as a glass
of wine.

00:24:33:21 – 00:24:55:18
How how old were you when you met? A 25. Okay. I was 25 and I was
already using then I met her on a night out in a in a nightclub in
Epping. Go one on five for if. And I remember what date to 35th
November. It was raining. It was 1130. It was 2006. I remember
exactly what exactly everything the by.

00:24:55:20 – 00:25:14:19
And I met her. She was very normal. She worked she had about
business as well. And she was, you know, pretty puts together and
she had she was kind and she never got she never understood what I
was like for quite a long time because I’d go out of her and I use a
bit. And that was sort of off acceptable off.

00:25:14:19 – 00:25:35:14
And it wasn’t really, you know, at that point. Yes, because I’d tell
her, but I would never tell her what I was. I’d never told of the
right volume. Of course not. So I’d go, I’ve got one, I’d I Friday,
I mean, this didn’t last long. I mean, within. The first year of our
relationship, it went from. Usually I’d stop doing that is pretty
evident.

00:25:35:14 – 00:25:54:11
No. Faster. I’m not stopping. And I’m up all night and I’m going
still, you know, I’m still on my best behavior. And, we got married,
two years later. so in this two years, you’re still using it this
period? Yeah, I never stop. I, I might go for a month. I’m not going
to wait. Come on.

00:25:54:12 – 00:26:13:05
You know, I’m usually when I come out, but I make sure I’m going at
it at this point, I am going at because I’ve got a girlfriend I want
to use. And she’s not even a drinker. Germaine. And she’s, you know,
working properly and kids and all sorts of stuff. So, you know, so
just normal. She’s normal. Like a normal person wants me whether or
not she’s got codependency.

00:26:13:05 – 00:26:34:09
Different, different thing there. But, you know, she cut me off not
well because they were me. But we got married and I, when I come
back of the animal donor animal, I think it became apparent I
weren’t quite right. And I went to rehab the week after our wedding.
for anger and lying. That’s what you told her?

00:26:34:11 – 00:26:56:23
That’s what I told them. That’s what I told me. Okay? They gave me a
book, said I can give a drug, and I believed that. I lasted a week
at the Priory, and, I’ve got. And I’ll come at. And, I was what
saved, I was saved, I spoke quite a I spoke slowly, I manipulated
it, and what happened?

00:26:57:02 – 00:27:14:04
I was back on it within a month, I remember exactly. I went driving
to London, got to have dinner. I’ve got a bad pair on a on about one
of the boats, I drove back to Essex. Let’s talk about a back to
Essex. Left on the boat from embankment, bought some drugs and drove
back. Sorry. Let’s go back.

00:27:14:04 – 00:27:29:24
Yeah. You take Nico on a date? Yeah, on a barge? Yeah. You now get
the itch? Yeah. Back. You drive all the way back to pick up? Yeah, I
drive all day. Bucket. Yeah. Where does she. I said I was on the
farm. You said you on the phone the whole time. Yeah. That’s bad
enough that you know that.

00:27:30:00 – 00:27:48:03
That’s just one example of the many, many things I’ve done. Like, I
mean, it’s an endless thing, isn’t it? I mean, which thing is the
craziest thing you’ve done? Oh, I mean, it depends what level of
crazy you want to call off. So I was before I met my wife, I was,
going past the Grove Hotel in Watford drunk.

00:27:48:03 – 00:28:12:04
No, I wasn’t high. Surprisingly, I wasn’t on. I was seeing this
girl, and, I had a Mercedes SL 40, 50, brand new. I was pissed and,
flipped around, drive over the top of it. What? On a no one was a
luckily, but I flipped it. I was hanging upside down. I ran off, I
got away, I said the car was stolen.

00:28:12:04 – 00:28:33:15
I got arrested after I reported the car stolen. I didn’t like it
very much at all. So I stopped after and found her that week. She
graphs me app. I’ll connect. I got done perverting the course of
justice and contributory driving that in the court of justice I got.
I was lucky actually. I got community service and ten points I
didn’t get a bang.

00:28:33:15 – 00:28:51:04
I should have went to prison. Really? It’s appeal me because I told
them truthfully. Anyway, I’m going to drop, a version of Calls to
Justice to waste in place time and fiber. that’s one thing of smoke
crack with a tramp in the street in Soho and left arena in Sexy
Fish, one of the best restaurant in London.

00:28:51:06 – 00:29:18:12
There is nothing I ain’t done. I’ve sat in the offices in some of
offices before, in the cubicle, in the toilet for six hours.
Drinking vodka was given to everyone. Leaves like I am, I am, I’m a
multi-millionaire. It’s the truth. But I am a homeless person easily
if I’m drinking and use it. I’ve sat on a park bench in Shoreditch
in snaresbrook, two days after a stint in rehab, smoking a cigar.

00:29:18:16 – 00:29:43:19
I o’clock in the morning, doing okay on a newspaper, drinking vocal
out of a brand bank, sniffing cow for two days, not moving. It gets
me to all sorts of places I don’t want to be. I don’t care. So, you
know, my stories are English. There’s endless stories. Why don’t you
start? There’s no stopping. I can’t stop, she stops me, you know,
every time she would like.

00:29:43:19 – 00:30:04:16
Because my habit went from bingeing. I ended up being binge, like 4
or 5 day binges. But what I would do is lock myself away. I would go
to her and I would sell. She would. I mean, yes, I’d go and check
into an hotel, but I wouldn’t leave that room. Toilet cleansing. I
used to get receptions, springing me up, checking them out, and I’ll
pretend I was working nights until she would work out what hotel
was, and she would drive around looking for my car or working from a
credit card where I was.

00:30:04:16 – 00:30:08:23
She’d drive my daughter.

00:30:09:00 – 00:30:32:01
Multiple times, multiple times. And that would happen every three
six months, give or take, till in my recovery at the start. How long
did she part with that? She never did. She never left my shift.
She’s listening. Right? She never left her. it’s not an I think it’s
a, So I will say it’s all time.

00:30:32:01 – 00:30:37:16
I’m sorry.

00:30:37:18 – 00:31:03:04
She didn’t deserve. She didn’t have any to worry or any things I did
or any of the things that affected her life because of what I was
like. She never deserved it. You should have left me. She should
have left me. I would leave her because it would’ve been the best
thing for me. She didn’t. But, I mean, what she stood by was years
of a mess.

00:31:03:06 – 00:31:32:24
Years. Years of problems, years of problems. But I was always by
myself. So I don’t know whether that was the bit where. I think if I
wasn’t by myself all the time, they might be a bit different. I
don’t know if she saw something. She says that because she say that.
Yeah, she did. She saw something. Can you says that she has a sort
of good linear and it’d be bits, you know, there’d be glimpses
wouldn’t, you know, like, oh, six months, five months and I’d be
right and work, you know, as worked and, you know, care about kids
and, and whatnot.

00:31:32:24 – 00:31:49:12
But I do that on quite a moral person. I try to live my life. Right.
Not because of recovery. I don’t do no more recovery any more. But I
don’t like being a I don’t, I don’t I’m in a camp. So, you know, I
don’t like better come so but when I do that, I’m the opposite to
what I believe.

00:31:49:13 – 00:32:07:23
I think the answer is this you’re a really good person at heart,
with a good home and a lot of time and energy to give to people you
care about. And she saw that, and she saw something that came along
that, not that she really that you couldn’t take control of. But she
still saw the good in you and that’s why she she stayed by you.

00:32:07:24 – 00:32:33:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. what did you lose over your addiction? I
lost my lost mum. Lost myself for for ten years. Lost friends, my
family. My mum’s a lot. Another woman. My wife. Never, never, never,
never confronted me. Oh, I’m sorry, but I would add some memories.
But, above. And I would talk to me. Your brother doesn’t talk.

00:32:33:04 – 00:32:49:07
Yeah, and, you know, that’s for a different reason. Maybe. But I
think my addiction and and and some another thing that’s to do with
him and he’s not an addict is the reason he doesn’t talk to me. That
was his choice. Okay, I’ll take some responsibility. Now, most
things in my life are my fault, and I’ll take full responsibility
with this one.

00:32:49:07 – 00:33:06:10
It’s half mine. is it worth you half fixing it? I saw him at a
funeral. I saw him a funeral. What’s up to you? Okay? He shook his
hand. I’ve always been a part of him. I’m his response. He shook my
hand. But you went because I think really the problem is science. Do
if he’s he’s failings not not mine.

00:33:06:10 – 00:33:27:00
So you know. But you know I’ll. I’ll take responsibility that I lost friends, loved ones. I must have lost business deals. I must have,
because why wouldn’t I have these things? I never turned up for? I
always seem to manage to work through most up until. Until near the
end, and I couldn’t. I was somebody I’ve spoken to a lot of
successful and.

00:33:27:00 – 00:33:55:16
Well, I would consider ultra success. Yeah, people, very, very
successful people who’ve had addictions who have been very,
functioning and able to successfully navigate their life while they
had an addiction. Because just because you have an addiction doesn’t
necessarily mean you can’t be quote unquote successful. Yeah, I
agree, I just think there’s a sense in you to want to escape from
whatever it is in your life at that moment in time.

00:33:55:20 – 00:34:12:14
Yeah, I think as well. I was very lucky. The trophy, I think, I
believe I was very lucky that my wife runs a business that employs
2000 people. She knows what she’s doing. So when I went because it
the last five, six, seven years of my addiction, I could I was like,
oh yeah, I couldn’t speak. If I was at it, I verbally couldn’t
speak.

00:34:12:16 – 00:34:29:02
I didn’t go anywhere. So she ran my businesses. The business that’s
over, right? Figures wouldn’t have happened without her. I was sober
when it sold. But you know, it wouldn’t have happened without her.
She’s your rock. She’s everything.

00:34:29:04 – 00:34:55:23
And what way is your life different now? Oh, it’s immeasurably
different. I’m happy I got a gift for waking up in the morning
early, which I do believe is like a gift. No one’s angry at me.
People are happy to see me, I can communicate, I can listen to my
children and not want to kill people. I can drive a car without
worrying if I’m going to get pulled over.

00:34:56:00 – 00:35:00:09
Just normal stuff. I.

00:35:00:11 – 00:35:20:03
Turn up on time. I’m able to go this podcast on. Yeah, I’ll be there
because it’s important. John. I mean, just just to be present is a
gift of recovery. Forget everything else. Not one of the dollar.

00:35:20:05 – 00:35:39:06
And what daily routines have you fought, that helps you maintaining,

massive or not? A massive or not. So I wake up early. what time is
it? 5:00, 4:00, 3:00. Well, I don’t have an alarm, but naturally, I
wake up. I’m up by six easily. I go downstairs, I have a big bottle
of water. I’ll drink some of that.

00:35:39:06 – 00:35:57:07
I have a black coffee. I talk to the dog on the couch, lucky enough
to got a gym and a pull in my ass in the sauna. I’m going to gym
with that. So when the gym come here, I’ll do whatever I’m going to
do. I’ll be 45 minutes of cardio running I like also, I like a
peloton.

00:35:57:09 – 00:36:17:17
Peloton do weights wherever it is I’m doing it day or do every day.
I’ll come back in. I’ll go on TikTok or Instagram or, do some
emails, get in the shower, start my day. My business partner is 24
years sober. That’s and I’m with him all the time. Shout out to Andy
24 years now. That’s handy. He’s I feel it.

00:36:17:17 – 00:36:39:14
I still feel so sorry. Yeah, yeah. Daytime I feel I call him he’s 25
for you. So so you know and that’s that’s my routine. I normally try
to get in the evening even if it’s just walking. Yeah I struggle, I
still struggle by myself. I hate being indoors by myself. And being
indoors is my favorite place to be next to a place.

00:36:39:16 – 00:37:03:14
It’s so men. Oh, as soon as she’s not there, I can’t relax. So when
she’s not there, I have to be active. I’ve got cooking. Try and eat.
Well. Not always. My best is Faye. I struggle with that problem. And
I have addiction. I’ve got food. I’ve been up to 24 stone into my
addiction. yeah. I went from being a professional footballer,
training every day to not doing anything for ten years because if I
wasn’t getting paid, I won’t exercise.

00:37:03:14 – 00:37:19:02
And I never saw any of it. But just just being normal, I, that’s my
daily routine. But the mornings and the mornings are important where
I like to go a bit about knowing what’s the telly for the sleep. I
tell her I love her, she always. I was my auntie. She doesn’t mean
this. She was meant for sleep.

00:37:19:04 – 00:37:35:03
I always wake up, that time, even if I got bit at one, I wake up at
that time, I love it. It’s nice, right? I love it, I’m the same.
Love it. Something just changes when you get over your addiction.
That’s what I know. But listening to you and myself, I’m awake at
five, 430, 5:00 every morning.

00:37:35:04 – 00:37:52:15
Yeah. When you’re clean, it’s just something I don’t know. I don’t
know what does that I don’t know if it’s the same with everybody.
Certainly listening to you. Yeah, that’s the same for me. as a
recognized social media personality, businessman being on TV and the
things you do, how do you maintain being sober and being clean while
being in the spotlight?

00:37:52:15 – 00:38:12:13
Because you go to places where there’s free alcohol, where there are
people using, where there are those situations, how do you deal with
that? Again, at alcohol, I’m not worried about it. I don’t think
about it so much. But, you know, obviously sometimes you are I think
being honest is the truth is it is the best way because I spent a
lot of time in recovery telling people I weren’t drinking because I
was on antibiotics or whatever.

00:38:12:15 – 00:38:32:07
You just tell people what you all then it’s alright. But what? I sit
there with someone doing loads of coke now what I say that people
are drinking. Yeah. No problem. I’m happy because I know tomorrow at
a minute I’m going to wake up at 5:00 kind of gym, go for a walk,
probably on a Saturday and grab a coffee with my wife and that’s
enough.

00:38:32:09 – 00:38:47:20
I don’t go to loads of things, but I didn’t go to loads of things I
was using. That’s not because I’m sober. It’s because I don’t like
it. That’s fair enough. Yeah. No, it’s, So, so other people
listening to this about your book on days like these, the lost
memoir of a goalkeeper. Yes, I know what it’s about.

00:38:47:20 – 00:39:11:11
Yeah. So? So, in 1994, my dad did a did a book that I didn’t know
about with, school teacher, cassette tapes in the manuscript. And in
2014, I bumped into this school teacher, who had a very distinctive
haircut. I had a in there, and I recognized him. It was my Sunday
morning teacher when I was ten, so I’m not 30, and I’m watching my
son plays there and I say, yeah, you let’s clip row.

00:39:11:11 – 00:39:25:16
And he said, yeah, yeah. So I said, I’ve not seen you in 20 years.
But I said, I’ve got your dad’s book assignment. Dad never did a
book. He really did come to my house. So I turned up on the Monday,
my make up, and he brought down a packed lunch box for the cassette
tapes. But that Tolkien and a board manuscript were right.

00:39:25:17 – 00:39:48:21
One copy on a word processor, and he gave it to me. I’ve still not
listened to the tapes. it’s a trove. But that sat in my cupboard
till that 2018. I weren’t ready to deal with it. And I’ve at one
time dating of it. I rang somebody to contact me for it and he said,
I want you to meet Tim Rich, writer, sports writer, journalist.

00:39:48:23 – 00:40:04:19
He lives in South six miles with me. But at the time, Covid just
come. By the time I finished with him and his wife had to, she she
edited the Pope. She died for a while in our book of cards. And she
was in, you know, one of them bubbles with inside a bubble. You
weren’t allowed to leave the house, so I dropped him on his
doorstep.

00:40:04:20 – 00:40:22:05
And for two years, we communicate by phone while he went through the
tapes and the manuscript, redoing it. By the end of it, he went,
there’s only half a book I need to interview. People can only be,
oh, you know, he finally comes to my house. First time I met me
person two years later, I told him what I’m telling you today, and
he went, that’s the prophet.

00:40:22:05 – 00:40:45:07
He spoke. So the book’s been made up of. It’s quite clever. What
I’ve done is what really mattered in the present. Me in the past.
it’s a blended story of my dad’s career. What happened and what
happened to me after he died. And it’s been. I mean, I did it for my
dad’s memory, really, but last year’s bestseller Telegraph’s book of
the year, with a notable documentary, offers on it at a minute.

00:40:45:09 – 00:41:05:07
Whether or not that’s going to put us up to my mum. I’m not
listening to the tapes, which people think is meant over. I haven’t.
It’s interesting. There’s a question I ask all my guests, Joe, and
that is for those listening from what you’ve been through, from your
personal experience, for those listeners struggling with addiction,
what advice would you give to them?

00:41:05:09 – 00:41:24:02
Stay sober for an hour. If you can stay sober for one hour, you can
do one day for 12 hours. You need to do one day, two days. And if
you can do that, you can do anything. And that one hour can be
really hard. It sounds so simple. So people are not. But you might
think I used to go sit in a bath.

00:41:24:04 – 00:41:38:08
Think my I sit in the bath for now, watch me get my laptop and watch
it on side watch it episode. I’m not going to do. I’m not going to.
I’m when I’m in the bath will get me to for a walk, but just stay
sober for one hour. It’s all you got to get home. Thank you. Joe.

00:41:38:12 – 00:41:43:12
Joe, thank you for coming clean with me. It’s been a pleasure. You
very much. Thank you so much.