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00:00:40:16 – 00:01:08:16

Hello, I’m Elliot Wald, and welcome to another episode of Coming Clean with me. And here today, my guest is J. James is here to discuss his addiction recovery and sobriety. And Jay is co owner and presenter of Manchester United’s longest running YouTube channel. Football commentator, superfan, podcaster, journalist. And he’s been told the fifth most important person in his household.

00:01:08:17 – 00:01:28:01

Welcome, Jay. How you doing? Thanks for having me on. That’s my pleasure. Jay, just tell me back and tell me how it was like growing up in Salford. it was all right. I mean, I mean, Salford, I see, is actually fourth down South. Okay. You would guess it from my accent, though. But when I was a baby, we made Salford mutual applause, which ironically, is kind of what is where I live now.

00:01:28:01 – 00:01:48:03

I’ve been everywhere I’ve lived. I remember back in Eccles, and when I was growing up there, we didn’t have much money, you know, I lived, I lived in different parts of Manchester, not poverty stricken or anything like that, but families and that’s family. Not long, but I love, you know, a loving family. I grew up in a loving household, up close, close knit set of friends as well.

00:01:48:03 – 00:02:11:09

So I see, you know, when I look back on the challenge, fond memories, to be honest with you. Oh, yes. Yes. And when did you first start drinking? I was introduced to drugs. I started drinking from a very early age. Now, probably about 1314. How did that come about? I think with friends, school, after school, sort of on a Friday or on a Saturday, I’d stay at my friend’s house because I went to grammar school.

00:02:11:11 – 00:02:28:01

So I passed an 11 plus exam. When I was going to be an exam. I passed the next grammar school a few miles away. So I had friends from school and they lived a few miles away. So I stayed at a house. So I had a couple of friends whose mum and dad used to stay over, and I remember I had on the streets my mom would.

00:02:28:01 – 00:02:43:13

We tried to have a drinking on the top, that kind of thing, and then stay at our house. So from about age 13, 14 started drinking and I noticed that I used to sort of drink a little bit more. My friends, I used to love drinking more than they did, and I carried on drinking some solid salts straight away.

00:02:43:13 – 00:03:03:20

Those signs that this is this could be problematic. You could probably see that this isn’t just a 14-15 year old. Why life? I enjoy the drinking part of something now, and I think that’s a common trait of people who have addictions is they become very old. And I think mentalities, you know, I think we can we we carry that on through our lives with that mentality.

00:03:04:01 – 00:03:22:24

And what age did you start getting used to? Drugs around a similar age, around 14, 15. Started smoking weed. I was well, everyone did my age. A lot of friends did it. Pretty easy to get hold of as well. I was never in those dramas. That and then around when I was 15, started taking on firming whiskeys. We called them and I.

00:03:23:01 – 00:03:42:15

Yeah, yeah. Government. Yeah. Oh that’s horrible. Tell you what. Soap. It’s horrible. I know I’ve tried that enough. Yeah. Of course. Horrible joke. And my I remember I used to take in school or something. School me up beauty mount pain like a lunatic. Honestly I know. And then I’d be coming down the hall from under my funeral, you know, feeling horrible?

00:03:42:18 – 00:04:01:09

Yeah. but I sort of carried on. Once I left school, we swapped Raven, and then my parents. Yeah. Moved on to ecstasy. And this is around the mid 90s. So ecstasy has a reputation on. I don’t even remember where you are. And that’s the only best time. That’s when the police clampdown really was on the town. Yeah.

00:04:01:15 – 00:04:27:14

And you’ve heard horror stories and scandal really don’t. So you get to see this town. You didn’t pull it off as you’d expect from some some money. Well, you think you’re invincible when you go 100%. I was 15, 16, 17, taking pills, going on, raving. And again, though, my friends would be sort of going on the whatever the next day and I’d be staying on all weekend and just getting on binges, binges, muffin dropper binges, even if they just saw 1617.

00:04:27:14 – 00:04:50:00

I remember getting from raving on a Sunday afternoon what happens? It’s now night and it’s still a lot. Still be of feeling at least bearable after sitting. I mean, I couldn’t eat. Yeah, but you get to play hockey. Yeah, he’s a pocket food, really. I mean, finding words like roast potatoes and gravy is what’s going on. She didn’t know on jokes.

00:04:50:00 – 00:05:07:09

Yeah, it was that kind of thing, you know, just I managed that. Yeah. And how did that escalate? So. Sorry. Just. Okay. Can you just move a little bit further. No, no, no. Just to way you get on to that. Yeah. No, I just thought we could. Hey, the breathing is fine. I did, I just I stopped breathing in five.

00:05:07:11 – 00:05:26:10

Okay. Which was picked up from. Yeah. That’s right. where do you want to go back to my first question. You were going to ask you. Just five minutes of that. I can’t remember what I asked. Okay, okay, okay. And, what and how did your usage escalate? It escalated very quickly. and in all sorts of ways.

00:05:26:10 – 00:05:45:11

And the warning signs without. I just ignored them. I lost a lot of weight. I’ve always been quite skinny. Anyway, slim should be looking at about 44 years old, especially when I was eight. Mr.. but I was very, very skinny. I didn’t sleep well. And then it got up, popped up and in a mental hospital for a little while.

00:05:45:13 – 00:06:04:05

And I think that. How old were you in that meeting? I think I was that psychosis. Yeah, that was absolutely. it’s very vague for me. I’m not trying to be coy. I’ll tell you anything else. Just as a memory is very hazy. So it was a model of medication, wasn’t. Well, what was it? Just before you went into the hospital?

00:06:04:09 – 00:06:27:08

What happened? Just before? I think I was having conversations and saying things that were not for a while person. I think people picking up on that. And, then eventually the doctor spokesman, I don’t know, a place where you can get some proper balance, like, is that sectioned or free will? It is free. Well thank you, I think I think I know you should know that, but as far as I know, it was free.

00:06:27:08 – 00:06:48:04

Well, I’m not 100% sure, because I remember just so going there. I was only after a couple of weeks we got to, I don’t know, medication and they were comfortable to me, but someone was asked for. Mum came to see me. I was having my therapy, medication, 18 years old so to speak, or something like that would improve health.

00:06:48:06 – 00:07:06:07

interesting stuff, I think. I think you’re right. I think when I have clients for me who are young, 20, 21, 22, I always find that a bit of a challenge because I think that, you know, that’s so much part of their culture, their life, all their friends around them use. You know, that’s a big decision that I, I mean, I have respect that.

00:07:06:08 – 00:07:26:23

But it’s a big decision that I used to decide that I’m going to do drugs and alcohol anymore. Yeah. Yeah. It was beyond that. I couldn’t I couldn’t even begin to think about that, to be honest with you, no matter what went through, no matter how it was started, until the police were around this time. yes. For, possession of cannabis, is it just cannabis?

00:07:27:00 – 00:07:54:15

Could have been worse. Yeah. got community service. A lot going on. Yeah. This is all on a similar. And so I’ve been in hospital. Do community service, been arrested? I know that’s how I was rated. I want to go next which obviously go down very well know. I mean I think a lot of people talk about nature or nurture, you know, as in nature as in a genetic predisposition to have an addiction or nurture as in the way you grow up, maybe a rough environment of abuse or that kind of thing that can affect you.

00:07:54:19 – 00:08:13:10

Do you think you have a genetic predisposition because you had a nice lifestyle? Yeah, yeah, man, I’ve had a little money, but it was no that it was no. Wasn’t like it was so, you know standard or anything. I had a loving family and didn’t really move too much to be honest. You know, I was a happy kid, but I do feel like there was something, there was something in me.

00:08:13:12 – 00:08:34:21

Just made me, sort of compelled me to drink and to take drugs and to try and get as I was mad as a cold. Yeah. I wouldn’t have even said I was necessarily unhappy or depressed. Is not like I was drinking to forget. Sort of give you a diagnosis. Let’s get you escape. Yeah. The escape. Yeah I did, and I just carried that to sort of, sort of maximum degree pass out.

00:08:34:23 – 00:08:54:08

At your point, what was the frequency, how frequently were you use. And this is probably a little bit later. I’ve probably moments when it’s early 20s, but every day, every day, every time I got to the point where I was drinking and using drugs every day. Okay. Cocaine. Yeah. Cocaine was, became much of a choice a little bit later on in life.

00:08:54:08 – 00:09:13:04

Yeah. And that’s when it’s early phase. But then it was, then it was cocaine and then obviously, you know, but anyway, the cost of that. Yes. Not cheap, you know, because you know that it wasn’t the case of, oh, you know what? You get some time and you all right, you got enough to, to just go get drunk, however.

00:09:13:06 – 00:09:26:22

Okay. That’s how I did it. And I was doing all sorts of to pay for it of us are that happens. I mean, I guess that he was talking about, you know, he served up to, to pay for his own time. I see that all. That’s all I tried to he tried. That was was a terrible family.

00:09:26:22 – 00:09:45:10

His drug dealer was it just sniffed it. You just use your acid like I did. We, you know, me. My friends drug. They’re not I tried they’re not going to something with that because I wasn’t selling enough to break my own habit, because my habit was out of control. And what quantity we use in a day behind my hand compared to some other people even go.

00:09:45:12 – 00:10:14:20

It’s not that unsellable, though I’d say around about anything between two grams to 4 or 5g a day for so long. Wow. Yeah. When you, lots of it’s not so. And and it was a time as well when I was using I was working it was a time when I was a reporter, you know, and I was drinking and using it until the start before I went to got, I was just not at first thing in the morning because the police was starting a new initiative of drug and doing something together.

00:10:15:01 – 00:10:35:21

So these two drinks are not to be drinking drinks as they broken up, I went down next to me, the police. They were doing a press conference in the street and I was drunk. Just literally I woke up. I don’t I don’t think it’s on drugs. Were you functioning in that functioning, functioning just about got down and into the office.

00:10:35:23 – 00:10:53:10

Where you out to? Me. Can I have a volunteer who looks at me say breathalyzer? I’ve got loads of reporters in other places you mention. And I thought next, you know, I know what he was. I literally I’m behind and reported and just pushed there towards it. But she’ll have a go. And I made a joke of it and she did.

00:10:53:10 – 00:11:09:22

Thank God for if I had a breathalyzer I would have been positive for everything. Yeah, I was, I was living the life of these crazy people would have not for bookings report and he’s fine is working or whatever. I was living in a flop house. I was on the edge. But what point did you realize that you went from functioning to normal functioning?

00:11:09:24 – 00:11:28:20

There’s been a couple of moments where life has to go away from me, but afterwards, the timing of its prison time was pretty much going for me in prison, not knowing what that was at first, I went to I was a I was a kid down in San Francisco and sort of fell into it. Oh, you young offenders.

00:11:28:20 – 00:11:48:19

Yeah, I fell in. Yes. Chelmsford in Chelmsford I end up in jail. Free reign and Netherlands Carnival. I was using and then I came out, I went for any sort of ups and downs. Got my life in order a little bit. That’s a Manchester things going okay that I sort of, you know, started using heavily to get on that before.

00:11:48:19 – 00:12:14:15

And I have now I’ve sort of spiraled out of control. I’ve got clean again once college with senior started law and became genuinely started reporting and then after that again started using cocaine, stopped using cocaine quite a lot. Started sort of, you know, spending all my money love cocaine. And then I was when it was just, it was get to the point of, you know, got to do something spiraled, spiraled massively, massively.

00:12:14:15 – 00:12:37:08

And at this point now I’m in my late 20s, early 30s coming away with a massive problem. I spend days, long days. I’m well exacerbated as well as I was going, oh, you had to grow it. Yeah. So so can you know the combination you imagine being off, you know. Yeah. Paranoid. Yeah. Right. Roughing it up. You had to grow in your thinking.

00:12:37:08 – 00:12:58:04

Someone’s gonna continue to do this. That any little noise I did, I was convinced was, oh, Bill coming to install it and I was paranoid stalker. All summer. You think with us, I give my friend a list. He was smoking weed. People can said every day, and it’s different. Smell it. Clean clothes. Of course it does. I don’t know, that was a disaster.

00:12:58:04 – 00:13:20:17

Of what? It was just a disaster for a moment. So just. It was just a horrible, horrible time. But the answer was, now just stop using drugs. Nothing occurred to me then. So just carry on using, you know, hope it gets passed. What? You had a great passion for football because you have a YouTube channel. You come and say to refine your, you know, your inmates, right?

00:13:20:19 – 00:13:41:10

Tell me what correlation football had on you drinking and using. They went hand in hand, sometimes four seconds. Second do it. In fact, most of the time it was. So I’ve been to the game away days abroad and watching football whenever some sort of lumps in the game and I’m bothered. I’ve been too busy getting drunk or twisted or whatever.

00:13:41:12 – 00:14:00:24

Cocaine is massive, massive part of a football culture. Well, you’re not, so yeah, I’ve got friends you still use. It’s is. And the only that’s the case for me, it was a good excuse because on the surface, ostensibly you go and watch the football, you know, and you’re around everybody else. So. So it’s like it’s accepted. Of course it’s you.

00:14:00:24 – 00:14:16:17

You’re, you know, you’re in on the culture wheel wherever, you know, toilet sniffing goes. No one’s going. Even this is part of our culture. And it was a big part of it for me. And for years that’s what I did. I went to most of football and it was almost like that. But when you got sober and clean, what was I like?

00:14:16:17 – 00:14:31:21

Going to watch football almost with a new set of eyes. What was that like? Yeah, it reminded me of being a kid when I first went to football, because when I was going to football, when I was eight, nine, ten, 11, I was drinking McDonald’s. Watching the game reminded me a lot, and it sort of reinvigorated my passion in it.

00:14:31:23 – 00:14:47:08

I don’t think it since my career, I was become more football focused. I struggle clean. It’s always been a big part of my football anyway. You know, it’s, you know, it’s my career. I is my passion is everything apart from my family, obviously. So do you feel like you felt it was. It was kind of like being in a game for.

00:14:47:13 – 00:15:07:24

Oh yeah, I can enjoy the game. I mean, yeah, it is. You know what’s even been terrible since about clean for we start winning league titles and stop you know challenging for Champions League. I can enjoy the game more in the moment. The prison a prison you know that’s what it is. How did your addictions, impact your professional and personal life?

00:15:08:01 – 00:15:27:18

Well, it put my life on hold for many years, so I went to college in 1670 using. I dropped out, went back to jobs. I also got clean through detox and rehab when I was in my mid-twenties. So I went to college because I was clean and sober for a little while. Was able to complete my college course.

00:15:27:18 – 00:15:45:10

Don’t say, you know, become a journalist, got a journalism degree in journalism. So did you use it unit? No, I was clean. Oh, still a family? Yes. All right. Okay. Final year. So I was clean. So you. And so it’s kind of. You went for a long period of time of not use it. Yeah. I went for 2006, 2009, but I use it.

00:15:45:12 – 00:16:12:19

And then again, I around about a year and around 2001 just to Swales. I mean, it’s 2006 21 so so 20th June 2006 2009 around that time period to three years. Your clean was two 2009. How did that how did that relapse happen? I went to Vegas with friends in Vegas on that for a few days, went on a holiday to America with some Cisco.

00:16:12:19 – 00:16:37:01

And so I like Jones Vegas. So it’s not Vegas. Free is clean on be bill right? Yeah, I’m all right now. I’m all right now. I don’t have that addiction anymore. I’m cured. Yeah, there’s no nonsense. And friends I was didn’t really know about history. Uni friends they didn’t know. They didn’t say. Javon come on to them. I just wanted to drink, had a drink and then that was it.

00:16:37:01 – 00:17:01:15

And I was back on a path that eventually leads to me being signed. Flowers girl, Miss Barry doing sniff every day. Yeah, it’s amazing how fast someone who’s had an addiction to them get clean to go back, how fast they relapse. It’s like it’s almost like you go back to doing it five, six, seven days a week. Instantly I think crazy is crazy and it seems like before you know it, I forgot his position.

00:17:01:15 – 00:17:23:14

Now everything’s going so well. And I’m right back in the middle of it. And that’s what happened to me. You know, I finished my degree, thankfully. Went back to Manchester. Well, by this time, I’m not just drinking, I’m back on cocaine. And look at what level of cocaine me back to. Back to the same sentences. Similar thing. I was just again, from every penny I’ve got goes on and I’m trying to make money elsewhere outside my career to pay for it.

00:17:23:16 – 00:17:49:03

Just in a moment that I’m just constantly in this old spiral, if you will. What was the final straw, the final thing that made you decide right. This is it. I’ve got to do it like I’ve been swinging for Brazil. Pablo was no mean. I go now, but we’ve been together for about a year, on and off. She got pregnant.

00:17:49:05 – 00:17:52:21

I mean, we got pregnant.

00:17:52:23 – 00:18:17:14

Together. So when’s Brazil come back? I’ve been drinking Brazil. Come out. She’s not about. She goes to the hospital, so loses the baby. And we have these conversations. It’s a little, you know, we can try again, you know. So to move forward as a family or do you just kind of kind of do my little. Do you just go out and carry around and go disappear for days looking for an old, you know, what I need to to.

00:18:17:14 – 00:18:41:07

So I find it to be here for her. Stop being here for this family. We’ve got a little girl and trying to go on a path. So the moment the things change for me, when they have changed. And that was almost ten years ago, would you put down to the what makes this town different to all the other ones previously?

00:18:41:10 – 00:19:06:01

There’s lots of different reasons. I’ve got family, I’ve got three kids and three beautiful children. So you got commitment, got commitment. You know, these people look up to me, you know, do respect me to certain degree. I’m in a love relationship. I’ve got a lot to lose, and I’m enjoying my life. I don’t I don’t feel the need to go get a drink.

00:19:06:03 – 00:19:23:11

I don’t feel the need to use cocaine. I don’t feel like my life’s gonna get better. This mood is going to be enhanced like I used to feel. If I go home instead. And there’s lots of leaves on another, my career is going well. I’m losing. I’ve been to Thailand, which Australia. I’ve been to America with the jungle, with my job sober.

00:19:23:13 – 00:19:43:20

But in China. So you ten years ago, they’re going to sound the same one of even at the time I before I’ve been in China on the drugs and it’s not like it had been in short supply, as you can imagine. Yeah, I wasn’t interested. It wasn’t a risk was how can you can you handle this? I knew I couldn’t do it because there’s no pop, and it feels like someone would have been like, know off research.

00:19:43:20 – 00:19:58:05

I know what it’s like to take cocaine. I know what it’s like to drink. I don’t need to do any more. I know what’ll happen to me. Even say our first rule when I first drink. I’m not going to have one. I’m going to be gone, you know? And I’ve got too much going on. So if you want to do that in a genuine place now, I don’t want to use.

00:19:58:11 – 00:20:20:05

I’ve paid lip service before. I let you know that once where it’s like, I don’t want to use. Yeah, of course I don’t as well. I don’t come from a strong enough and I’ve got and it’s almost like. It’s almost like listening to jokes, almost like this. Right? I’ve got a loving family, I’ve got children, I have commitments, I have support, I have encouragement, I have an occupation.

00:20:20:07 – 00:20:39:17

And most importantly, I don’t need some external to help me feel better into. I don’t even escape anymore. I’m enjoying my reality. I’m enjoying where I’m at. That’s what you’re telling me, right? 100%, hundred percent. And I speak very openly. I do it for a friend with some validation, a little bit of things, and I talk about football.

00:20:39:19 – 00:21:00:16

I’m a nose, I’m clean. But you know, you know, no know, I know, I know up on social media with anything you want to inspire other people who are struggling. I was in Australia over that and sort of alongside, I will go to a bar for this event. People who knows me. Jenny, I’m just you know, when you said that you was eight, nine, whether you sober, I mean a lot.

00:21:00:16 – 00:21:16:22

I’m trying to get out. I’m getting out. Messages on Instagram, a message on Liverpool fans on Instagram say, man, I get a lot of message of a lot of Liverpool fans about us. But I can only say, you know what, Jay? I’m a Spain China baller. I’m going through it myself. I’m so angel. I’m glad they’re all new.

00:21:16:22 – 00:21:34:14

I mean, we can all I’m sure we don’t do well. I don’t mean as long. I think there is a little bit of responsibility. You have to be comfortable. You know how to be full of. Yeah. I’m on a channel. It’s got 750,000 subscribers. That’s a lot of people. You just got a lot of people. You know, I’ve got a lot of followers on on social media.

00:21:34:16 – 00:21:57:12

So if I’m saying something, live it. You know, I want to know people in here in my life, I Liverpool, there is a platform there. So there’s a little bit of responsibility. I do feel and it’s good to sort of get a little affirmation or appreciation from people. People say, Georgie, I appreciate on thanks so much now. So I was trying to reach out as well when people, you know, go and see it’s your thoughts on Instagram.

00:21:57:12 – 00:22:14:07

So message requests. Exactly I always try to yeah me too I said forget you do what things aren’t proper because I forgot in some something nobody’s going through. And I came around and said, oh you okay? Did I did it. I forgot the message. You said, I want you. It’s nice to be able to reach out and help people.

00:22:14:11 – 00:22:33:06

I mean, I find it quite challenging because I probably would on average daily about 300 DMs, all on my channel for addiction. And, you know, sometimes I’m get people like 13 years old reaching out and you’re looking, you thinking, you know, 13 and you got cut comment like so no support, no one around you. How are you?

00:22:33:09 – 00:22:51:23

How are you financing them? Well, I’m doing this and I’m selling a little bit. And you send it to his mates and you’re thinking 1315 should be playing videos. Man, I was up. My eldest is 13 not coming out. You even don’t think for much. And if she had a cocaine it you know. So this this is it is this, you know addiction can get you any time.

00:22:51:23 – 00:23:12:20

How did how did the addiction, affect your health? Sorry, guys. Once I can I still rolling.

00:23:12:22 – 00:23:32:11

It has been filming, right? Yeah. Has been filming. Just some of the details inside. I know I left my last studio because when I got back, I had an interview with someone, and it was just black to seven minutes in the middle of it. yeah. I was like, come on, I’ll do five minutes with me and all that we did to leave out.

00:23:32:13 – 00:23:56:21

So a few people and it’s like, there’s no audio. Awesome. We did this film, on zoom. It was in Greece. When did you do enough to. It was a deal. It was not communism. I just I did not know how it started. So again, I think he did all I got, I just left it.

00:23:56:23 – 00:24:17:24

Should be a fact. The last song I was going to say. The lines on the line. My song. Yeah. And it was the what’s up? What’s how did, What’s wrong with your addiction? Having your mental health. It’s horrible. So obviously I spent some time in a mental hospital. Okay. Power of soul. So long. depressed, anxiety through the roof.

00:24:18:01 – 00:24:38:01

To the point where you don’t know you because you’re in it constantly, you know? So it’s not silly. Get sober. You know, I can’t think what to do with my life. It wasn’t terrible, but, yeah, I was a for many years, but it wasn’t it. I got so because you can get. You can use it as a gift.

00:24:38:03 – 00:24:58:24

You become free in the hiding. The fact. So I reported for about three and a half years. Three years mostly I do a little bit on. I did didn’t know. Yeah. You didn’t know this. I thought you were just going on. Enjoy yourself for you must know. Well some going on it. but master, And it was obviously true love.

00:24:59:01 – 00:25:21:15

Can you think it was horrible? that was just such a perfect time. And I lost, you know, mental health professional seminar, you know, ignore it or you, just you, you you and man, it will carry on anyway. Yeah, yeah. How long have you been serving OJ? it’s was ten years. Ten years, man. Thank you. Yes. Thank you.

00:25:21:17 – 00:25:38:09

what happens yourself once you’re sick or whatever? You try the try the people you associate, you. Why don’t you try? Well, I’ve always been. I’ve always been fortunate. I’ve had a good group of friends and similar friends I used to use with. They. They might use, but not very often. Okay. So what I do is I use it and then carry on using on my own.

00:25:38:14 – 00:25:55:09

Were you the enabler for them? Did you enable them a lot of traffic, to be honest? Okay, I don’t think it all twisted everyone’s arms back in the day, but this is the thing that was we get to a certain age, they settle down, they get kids, they get mortgages, they get careers. I didn’t I’m still going through a spiral of sort of going through one disaster.

00:25:55:11 – 00:26:13:18

But this is the thing when you’ve got a lot of friends, it’s sort of the the misconception to ourselves is that my friends, I’m going to to know me when I stop using or stop drinking, there’s no doubt about that. I’m going to walk home. And most of my friends were. All my friends were glad to have that stopped because most of the time to go babysit.

00:26:13:18 – 00:26:30:14

Remember now, because I’m getting myself to stay or whatever suicidal thing will be off any money or whatever. A lot of them see this. Look at me missing. You know what you know. And you got to flip through some friends who were more using friends just using for. Yeah, you never saw unless you were less. It was only about use it.

00:26:30:15 – 00:26:50:16

Yes. Then friends are still. Because unfortunately, you know this to the other side. Did you get cleaning help? you get a lot of time. Well, and I have a foot of these on certain people, but you have to. You have to be ready yourself. You can show up some as much as you want, but unless they really, really want to do with it, you’re banging your head against a brick wall.

00:26:50:19 – 00:27:14:10

Yeah, I’ve, I’ve had so many people say, come on, you gotta stop this life. Let’s do this. I have friends. You’ve had a friend. Very good friend of mine. and he literally paid off dealers when? Limited pay to pay them off the debts around. They pay your debts? Yeah. Told him. Don’t serve him anymore. Seriously, don’t. I started because I flew by his house.

00:27:14:16 – 00:27:46:08

Yeah. The house. His first house. He bought him his wife, his girlfriend. And it’s not his very first house. That house was after was still being built. Move me to this battery. Didn’t even know the bathroom was on a time set. About to try and get clean through space. That’s a friend is a friend. I’m very, very lucky is you know he’s he’s he saw when I was more because he was use it and he got to the point where I was getting out of him because he tried to help me to no one point he was using and now he’s he’s as clean as well.

00:27:46:12 – 00:28:02:04

What do you think you missed out on all those years with your addiction? I think I just postponed a lot of things I don’t. I thought I’d and look at his what I missed out because when I look at my life now, I think, oh got I’m great from. Yeah I’m very fortunate in my life is not with the likes of God now, which I’m happy with.

00:28:02:10 – 00:28:19:06

But I think that based on a lot of things, most of my friends, they’ve got kids only my kids, because that is great, most of all their own homes. I still don’t know. When I was playing catch up, when I was first, so I just felt like my life was on hold for however many years, was using, you know, and just kept it paused.

00:28:19:11 – 00:28:39:19

Because when you use a one of the levels, I was, you know, advancing your career, you know, starting a family, you know, becoming part of the relationship. I wasn’t doing any of those things where at the same time, all my friends were my age. What they got to the point where it’s like doing something we’re all, you know, time served over and over again.

00:28:39:21 – 00:29:00:01

It’s not like it’s when I started first settling down against the point last night, I found it. I was so that’s all I think. You know, I don’t I don’t regret I’ve got in. My youngest is seven years old. She’s she’s amazing. So it is what it is. And I’m happy about this. And you’ve come out the other side and your focus on the present in the future know in the past.

00:29:00:01 – 00:29:20:12

And that’s a great thing. But if I was to ask you just for the listeners to wake up a little bit, for some people, if you had to put a figure financially not on what you’ve lost, but what you’ve spent on alcohol and drugs over that period of time, what amount of money would you say that was? Desire it?

00:29:20:14 – 00:29:41:03

It’d be practically everything I owned for a good few years. And also give me a number. Okay, okay. Fair enough. I’ll try to do some. I’ve said. Yeah. I mean, my point, let’s say, was had ten years. I reckon it could be around of million. Yeah. I reckon that’s how much you spend on drugs and alcohol. Yeah, I reckon.

00:29:41:04 – 00:30:03:01

How much money do you think you lost from your career that you could have had earlier? I genuinely think I could add more to that much more. So you got a half 1 million pound. You reckon so? Yeah. I don’t think that’s coming up as a possibility. I think that I think 200,000 to half a million is actually a very common figure for people going through addictions.

00:30:03:03 – 00:30:21:03

Yet you don’t see at the time know here’s the funny thing, right? You sometimes think to yourself, I’m only going 100. Couldn’t have joined us because that’s two tickets. Do you have you ever rationalize that sort of things yourself? Hundred percent all the time. Maybe you do that all the time. Why? There’s times when I’ll never buy anything.

00:30:21:03 – 00:30:39:07

Almost. It was like I only spend it on, on and on. Just so you always think any, any sort of monetary value for anything, you put it into the process of how, you know, what can I get with on in terms. Yeah. So that we don’t always figure unless you exchange this exchange, you also have to get to the point of it.

00:30:39:07 – 00:30:56:01

You know, I basically got the same pair of trainers for ages all on the same. You know, I’m not close, obviously, but I won’t be spending much going on clothes because I spend some money on clothes and trains and things where you can spend on drugs. I would always be my mouth, not my thought process. Yeah, you’re still going to the same environment.

00:30:56:01 – 00:31:14:02

So do you still go to the pumps of those red? I’m not for for my style. I mean, you can you can still go to the football, you know. Okay. Yeah. You pro now. Yeah. That’s not really my sort of thing. Not the options birthday or something where I went to work in the middle of the North Quarter, much to see some a very hipster place, right.

00:31:14:02 – 00:31:29:09

Lots of bars and sort of everyone goes on. I live a little one side of the. But, you know, I don’t got some stuff to do. Alcohol most weekends, I don’t know, how do you deal with it going out with other people around you, a drink, drinking, sniffing? there’s not many times I’ll be out with people sniffing either.

00:31:29:11 – 00:31:47:16

Okay. but I do go out all the time, or when I go out when people are drinking. And sometimes it’s a bummer. It’s not. It’s not an issue, you know, like, I’m a bad man. This is very bad. And she did it for years because she it bothered me. Right. And I didn’t even know this. And she mentioned it was I.

00:31:47:16 – 00:32:03:09

Oh I don’t drink, drink so you can drink from it’s fine. It’s not an issue. And but I could never get my head around the way she drinks because we went to Dublin over Christmas. she, she had some Guinness. Did you have a baby? Guinness? I said I don’t have a baby Guinness. we should have dropped it.

00:32:03:09 – 00:32:26:10

And this is what we’re hearing. So what I mean is, Eve, without an easy boy, a bottle of scenery and a bottle of Baileys, you know, to make space Guinness. Yeah, that’s been on our side of the kitchen for months. Unsourced. Do you imagine that’s the difference? Yeah, the difference is you drink to forget, you drink to escape.

00:32:26:10 – 00:32:47:02

You drink for a reason. Just to completely get paralytic. Yeah. She drinks such a small fantasy for pleasure. Yeah, yeah. And she didn’t even finish the first one in a week. I never get him back except for his reasons. Because it’s funny. Because it’s funny. Because when I have a patient comes to me to do with alcohol. I’m reminded of it’s time.

00:32:47:04 – 00:33:09:22

Early 2007, I had this idea to create a board game. It’s all psychology students have to revise for the exam. Yeah, and I thought, this is a big project. So I phoned up two colleagues of mine, two professors, and I said this, and I had this concept of this board game, and I see these little pieces, brains moving around the board and the 300 questions that would help the students to revise their psychology degree.

00:33:09:22 – 00:33:29:01

Right. But it ended up playing this game with other students. They’d be ready to sit their exam and they would get a great idea. So we started creating this board game drawing board game. Our game design started running the questions around, and at the time I had a show in Australia and I was going out to do those seminars with family coming back and forward, and they were so happy projects.

00:33:29:01 – 00:33:43:11

Right. And he kind of got put on the back bench. and I got a place in Spain just a little about, I don’t and I said to these two colleagues and I said this, why don’t you go to my place in Spain to be there for four days? We finish it, come back to the game, go to manufacture.

00:33:43:11 – 00:33:59:13

And in fact, the game is now sold everywhere. But but this gets to the point, right? So we’re in Spain. In and out. Course. No drugs, sure, but alcohol was never my problem, right? And, I like food. I like quality food. Yeah. So I said the first thing I said, I said, why don’t we go to this beautiful steak restaurant?

00:33:59:13 – 00:34:24:02

So we got this steak restaurant, and one of my colleagues named Adam said to me, it will come out of the old one. And I’m thinking, you ask him my permission, like one of the fucking bottle of wine or bottle of whatever. But I remember thinking to myself, it was £50 at the time, and I used to think it was a £50 on a knife, but if I bought a bottle of wine for a friend as a gift, I spent it on a 1015 and I know it’s 1015 for 50 single lot.

00:34:24:02 – 00:34:43:03

Right. But this is what happened. The waitress came over, she for the wine, and he did this, and he did that and did that. Didn’t. She puts the cookie. He puts a cookie. He drank one glass of wine the whole evening. Which of the bottle of into my palm will be there for us to do all four nights to finish the bottle of wine?

00:34:43:04 – 00:35:01:19

So I’m thinking, I’ve never seen anybody drinking on this. Right. So I’m on a plane going back to the UK, and I got to ask him what, since he was a decent professor. And just tell me what you do with this glass of wine. He says, oh, do you have a taste buds in your tongue? And I don’t remember how many you said in my apartment, but it was like a thousand, 2007.

00:35:01:19 – 00:35:17:11

I was a lot. I was a lot. Okay. And he was like, so doesn’t it seem right? No. He said, all the taste buds get to enjoy the wine. Okay, he says. I look at the color of the clarity. I look at reflections a lot on the surface. I’m say you run with the Bearcats. I like a small sip.

00:35:17:11 – 00:35:39:15

I put it down, I let go of it. What he actually was telling me was this. And I use this strategy for people with alcohol. Now, what he was really telling me, as if it’s a very small quantity but get enormous gratification, whereas other people who drink well, problem with alcohol, they drink huge quantities. She’s got a completely different mindset about drinking and that’s what you will miss most.

00:35:39:15 – 00:35:59:07

Yeah. 100% is really good explanation. Yeah. She, you know, doesn’t drink to get drunk drinks because she joins a pleasure. It’s a pleasure. She wants the taste of serve drinks and drink. She enjoys. And she can take it or leave it. And she left it for years because she thought it could drink and he didn’t. And I said, so.

00:35:59:07 – 00:36:27:01

No, it’s fine. Honestly, I appreciate the gesture and the fact that she wasn’t. You have to support it. Yes. Very simple. I couldn’t ask for a more support. Tom Bull I still got a little bit when I’m look at I think I couldn’t, I couldn’t have a bottle of TV in a bottle, Baileys or whatever. There was a time when I, I was, at my old job, I got and I got given a basket of my birthday, and it made me laugh because the CEO gave me this bottle.

00:36:27:03 – 00:36:52:19

And as he’s given it to me when he’s handing it over, you know, it was a secret. Yeah. I mean, he’s fine. you know, my power. So none of it. Anyway, we, we get a little bit because it was a very expensive bottle of tequila. Yeah, very, very expensive. we crack, you know. They’ve outsourced than tequila.

00:36:52:19 – 00:37:11:14

Obasanjo and know so that we gifted. And so what it was like that would have just thrown it all up and that day. Yeah. And you might have been the most expensive, but he wouldn’t go through nothing challenging. But you know it was a comment and yeah, I’m missing probably that’s kilos on top of it. But it’s different answer because she’s not she’s not included.

00:37:11:16 – 00:37:32:14

Yeah. Did you think that all or nothing mentality that you apply to addiction you’re now applying to other areas of your life. Yeah. Do I think I can see those traits I throw myself into the child also, do stuff in the family. Try to do as much as you can. do you think this approach, especially now I’m in a position where this falls over the chance again?

00:37:32:14 – 00:37:48:23

That’s my own business. First, on the life of own. My own business. So I know what point I get out. Yeah. Because you when you work with someone else, you might want to solve going through the motions to pay packet and the the week. This is different. Where is even put more. Where can we earn more when I, I refuse it to get more money.

00:37:49:01 – 00:38:05:07

Yeah. So do find myself throwing myself more flexible because you know, you know stuff. Not in a bad way. Know some of that. Because there’s times when I just try and switch off a bit, just trying to once we get comfortable shifts in phone off a detox for a week, because otherwise I’m just noises in the yeah, it is weird.

00:38:05:10 – 00:38:25:00

I’ve I knew that once. It wasn’t on the go. I went to Norfolk. I just in the way of being bait and, we were there and there was no phone service, so I think is one of the first times ever I can really remember not having a phone signal. And for me, it was incredibly refreshing.

00:38:25:00 – 00:38:41:20

We don’t take that down. Someone do it. No, we don’t. And I thought, you know, while I’m away with the kids, let me see him out of a sister in the phone that kids, thought I’ve been away with work. Excuse me? And I thought, well, let’s be here. Let’s be present. Let’s not be glued to my phone.

00:38:41:23 – 00:39:05:04

See how many views the child’s going to have or what. That’s impressive. Right? So I said it. It was like he’s got one addiction of getting over alcohol and drugs, but you become addicted to social media to see him. He likes to read comments in the comments. it’s addictive. Or I could spend hours, spent hours on the phone glued into analytics on the channel of the socials and have everything looking at numbers of my previous work patterns.

00:39:05:04 – 00:39:23:17

What about life? Sometimes you got to take a step back. Yeah. This isn’t this isn’t even helping is counterproductive. You’re not getting anything. Oh, that’s, you know, improving the channel by spending this much time on it. There’s a limit. And also, I don’t want to say when I stop drinking, I stop using drugs. I wasn’t present in my kid’s life because I was too busy glued to my screen constantly.

00:39:23:18 – 00:39:45:04

Yeah, focusing on things that come late. So that digital detox, I mean, he was great. I was Charlie was try and make some even more of a message. You know, you can forget that sometimes you bit you don’t ever want to let go for comfort. Yeah. So comfort zone. Yeah. It’s not it’s not the most shocking, you know, amazing thing that you spend an hour together.

00:39:45:04 – 00:40:04:06

Bore. No kids. Just me and, going out for a little catch up. It’s nice. So you have you played structure back into your life? The drugs eroded. Would you for some, that was a Simon out of zero strokes in my life. Nothing whatsoever. My only goal in the morning. A little cool. Since I was in it. There was no other focus.

00:40:04:06 – 00:40:22:15

There was no other reason for doing anything that you did. I did nothing wrong. Use it, drink it and use it. That was it. That was my whole purpose. No it’s different. Obviously my my goal is trying to talk to my family and trying to do the best I can not respect. So yeah, 100%. No focus and no structure, just jokes about life.

00:40:22:17 – 00:40:43:22

Many things you say about life. Yeah. I always ask all my guests, the last question, what advice would you give to anyone listening who is struggling with addiction right now? Joe, I think the first thing if they’re struggling, they know the first thing, which is a medicine themselves, because for a long time I didn’t even know she was struggling.

00:40:43:23 – 00:41:00:17

Oh, I could be in a mental hospital with some police out in prison cell or Nicole. So I don’t know if it’s all I have to worry about, man. So that’s the first time that you actually acknowledge that there’s an issue that you got sort of someone speak to some of the friends and people you might not have a lot of people around you find other people to care about.

00:41:00:17 – 00:41:21:06

You want to help you. And this help there is help, you know, so so to spoke on social media. You can reach out when I first got in trouble, when I was first struggling, social media wasn’t a thing and people saw a very negative one on social media. But you can’t access help, you can access, you know, people I know people would just say your opinion on your channel, have it.

00:41:21:06 – 00:41:41:05

Yeah. Back in the day they would have had to book an appointment. Yeah. So there is help out. I just go speak so on. Don’t suffer on your own. And another point is when I would make use of this is I know this isn’t what you asked to celebrate. If you think someone you know is struggling, if you’ve got a friend or someone you can say is is is funny, you brought that point up because I was going to say so on.

00:41:41:07 – 00:41:58:05

I forgot where this, I had a mother forget the other day, and she wanted me to try and explain to her, what it’s like for her son to have an addiction. Right. It’s a very difficult thing to explain to someone who’s never gone through an addiction. I know it’s obvious, and, it’s a little bit tongue in cheek, but was it.

00:41:58:05 – 00:42:22:11

It was. Imagine putting your mobile phone down and not touching it for three days. How difficult is it to not go and pick up your phone? But I know I should be on it, so I’m going to keep using I keep going back to put your phone that that’s such a for three days now you’re going to know a slight feeling of what he’s like trying to resist using, because it’s really hard for for somebody who’s never had an addiction to understand.

00:42:22:17 – 00:42:46:08

Another analogy I give is like a mosquito bite. I always say, you know, it’s like a mosquito bite. You get a mosquito bite and you know, you have poison and, you know, logically, you should not and survive because you release more poison if you leave it for a few days and see if I’m gone. Right. The problem is you can be really focused on such and such a the moment you forget right asleep, you scratch it, the itch becomes worse and then you have to scratch it more and more.

00:42:46:09 – 00:42:59:11

And that’s why I use it right the moment you go to use, you end up using more and more and more, and the more you take the focus of not using, then you end up using scrape. Why not? Because it’s it’s like that one. This is one of the reasons why I hope that you can white knuckle it.

00:42:59:13 – 00:43:13:12

You can’t manage it. You know, when you say, I’m just not going to use I’m not gonna use this. Well, I think you might use it. Yeah. That’s the pink elephant, right? Never heard that. Don’t think about that. Don’t think about what do you think of pink? So if you’re so. This is why I like to get socks.

00:43:13:12 – 00:43:34:15

Get so put my I did not. Yeah. I did not want to use drugs or drink. And that’s when I started to get that because once you can do that that’s that’s not true Johnny. Thank you for coming clean with me. It’s pleasure to feel like someone else. So at the therapy session, I really, really enjoyed it. I’m good looking, man.

00:43:34:15 – 00:43:39:01

Thank you.