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Hello, I’m Elliott Wald, addiction specialist and welcome to another episode of Coming Clean with Me. Joining me today is DJ Mak 10, a.k.a. Nathaniel Ramsey, a prominent figure in the UK grime scene known for his foundational role in the influential Nasty Crew. Recognized for significantly shaping the sound and culture of grime music. But behind the front edge of fame and Forever 23 years, he has battled addictions to cocaine, alcohol, women which at times have threatened to derail both his career and his life.

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Nathan is here to share his story of a life of grime. Welcome, Nathaniel. How are you doing? I’m good. Thank you. A thank you for coming out. I’m going to start this off by saying, first of all, I’m sorry. I’ve got to be the strong voice today, but I don’t want to cancel on you. Sorry. The people listening.

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And the second thing is, before we begin, I’m going to tell you from the offset. I’m 54 years old. I don’t have a fucking clue what British music is, but I’ll be watching you on Instagram, and. Yeah, and I’m loving it. Thank you. So. So let’s just start from there. So tell us about your family dynamics, childhood and growing up in East London.

00:01:07:13 – 00:01:47:04

Family dynamics. Well, I’m, a middle child, kind of five brothers lost one. Dad’s a drummer, mum’s teacher. You know, I grew up with brothers. That was quite naughty. Yeah. And, Yeah. All disorders. So growing up until, the under that and trying to fit into the roles they played outside. Okay. So you had some footsteps to follow because your brothers had a reputation as.

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Oh, you mean. Exactly. I got it, I got it. And, how old were you when you first started drinking? Probably started drinking about 12 or 13. Yeah. It was just the norm. It was the norm because I was around that all the time within my household. Being my dad’s in a band is Caribbean background that grew up in my house.

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It was parties all the time, not all the time, but we would have blues parties. There’s a lot of drinking a smoke and it was just part of the culture. I’d get it until, well, anyway, I’m okay. I mean, I’ve got friends of the grew up my though I get another pair of smoking weed. I joint drinking a couple of Tennent’s.

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Yeah, some quasi, it’s a man AC I know that I get that. Okay. And, what what drugs were you exposed to as a teenager? This where you’d really enjoy? Yeah, it just weed. This weed. And then I did see some of the stuff. But back in the day, it was trips. Oh, yeah, and things like that.

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I’d never, never tried. And you never tried to trap. I knew what they were. Did you? Not a bit like me, right? I never try to trip. I’ve tried many things in my life and I’ve never try to trip. And I’ll tell you what. I never tried a trip. Yeah, I never liked the idea of taking something that I couldn’t just stop.

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Why did you not want to take a trip? Probably the same reason. And I didn’t like the fact that it could. The stories I used to hear about tripping over literally be in your mind. Yeah. Hallucinate in this way? Yeah. I didn’t I didn’t like the idea of that. Same as I want to go stop when I want to stop, we go, you know, stop.

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Yeah. If I’m if I’m out there in another world, I want to come back. But I want to come back. I didn’t know I had that right. Your brothers were quite, known for anti-social behavior. They were a bit of an influence on you. Criminal activity. I’ve been told by the researchers. You want to tell me about that?

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Well, when I say criminal it criminal activity, I would more say. You could call it criminal activity. But, more stuff was just being a nuisance. Okay. Yeah. And, what’s the word I’m looking for? Oh, it’s just being a nuisance, like. Oh, I would act well in a way where I wouldn’t. There was no monetary gain in some of the things I was doing.

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Was it just for attention? Definitely not. Looking back now, that’s where it started. That’s where that attention seeking started. And looking for acceptance. Yeah. Well, one of did you say five brothers is somebody said to me, I mean, one of five brothers, I’m guessing you probably want to stand out a little bit. Yeah, I first I mean, I was probably the youngest.

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There was a stage when I was the youngest problem of about to come off the bar. So when I was doing all that stuff and they was a lot younger than me, so I got exposed to a lot more than what they got exposed to, even they potentially might have got exposed to some of the same things.

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But I got definitely got exposed to a lot more. And Natalie, yellow age. Yeah. Music always played a big part in your life. And when did it evolve into a DJ career? When I was about 15. So a young age is very young age. And what sort of music were you into at age? Garage. Well, I was, it was John on bass when I was about 13, 14 when I started deejaying was the tail end of the jungle era, you know, started in garage I go to.

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And how did you get into the grime music and can you just for me, can you just tumble? Grime music is grime is a derivative of garage okay. Yeah. So garage has garage MCs. Yeah. And jungle had jungle mix and then grime came along that it was a way of the youngsters of that time. So people from my generation growing up, they had a bit more to say, they wouldn’t rap in so they would rap on grime, which was a version of garage that was a bit more hardcore.

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But I think I’ve got a bit more, a bit more gritty, so it’s a bit more gritty and they could say a lot more that wouldn’t be accepted in the garage scene at the time. They would speak a lot more. They would rap a lot more when their lyrics was a bit more intricate. Okay. Because when I was discussing you actually with my son and his friend, because obviously some of the generation not knowing grime and they are and they started the recent things about, you know, like, oh, he’s playing with this guy, he’s playing with that guy.

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Yeah. Just just for us. Some of the DJs are knowing that you’ve you’ve done sets with Little Mix mixes. Yeah I said mix up first 54 fucking right and so right. There’s some big deejays as well, but I’d say mixed in the crowd. I was in, it was he said called Nasty Crew. Yeah. And that had kind of all the guys, hi Paul Sharkey major.

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No storm in. And then obviously I’ve worked with Dizzee Rascal, you know jammer demo. That was not part of that. I was great, worked alongside most people. Skepta all all all of these. Not wildly nice. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. And when and where did you first start? Try the packet boy. I think 16 or 17 around the age. How did that come about.

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You know, what would that come about from the music.

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Well I say don’t know about it was when I first tried it was through music. I’ve got a friend to his sister’s boyfriend. Deejays, and I needed to. It took us on a party box, like going to one of his gigs. And then I think I tried a pill first, and then he went from a pill to try and try and pack it, and then from there to this side, picking up little bit silly little bits.

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And then before you know, it, how quickly did it take you from first using to it becoming a regular not problem, but a regular occurrence? I’d say about 4 or 5 years from was this I feel lucky when I was doing it regularly, I was about 21, 22. Right? Yeah. It’s funny, isn’t it, because that’s the progression, right?

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I mean, yes, occasionally there are people that I’ve come across in their clients that I’ve seen in there, people I’ve spoken to who straight away we didn’t use in that case, a clip, but that’s rare. Yeah, I would say two years, three years. That’s the pattern where you think it’s all good, it’s all fine. Oh, wow. I’m having a good laugh.

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It’s only on a Saturday and then all of a sudden you notice it, right? I didn’t notice it, though. You didn’t notice that? Oh no. No, I noticed it now looking back. But because more my experience is that that whole time period, that 23 years was a blur is like, well, when I, when I, when I went into recovery, I realized that all of that 23 years didn’t even make sense.

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It’s like they didn’t even exist. So there was a point where I was using because I was making money, and I thought it was all right there. Obviously, I knew I yeah, I’m up for three days or four days or whatever. It’s an issue, probably. But I didn’t think like the insanity of my thinking was, I didn’t think that it was that bad.

00:09:11:06 – 00:09:30:11

Still, like I had a problem, if that made sense. Yeah, I was I was enjoying it like like I can it was a laugh. It was fun. Yeah. Three days, no sleep in. I can recover and sit there and go. Three days of Saturday doing guilt. Yeah. And doing nothing. Yeah. You just witness. All right. Yeah. And he’s mad to say now or to even speak it out.

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I’m listening to most of that. But that’s the truth. Free days are now. I might the last day feel like feel like crap and probably be in a bad way. But then give it a day. I’m laughing about it. Then I’m doing the same thing again. I’ve recovered, I’m no longer suffering and it’s all good fun. Yeah, yeah, I forget about the bad part of it.

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Yeah. Because that memory, what happens is when you’ve used and abused it, and that memory is quite profound, is like, I’m not doing that. I’m not touching, I’m doing it. And then over a period of time, that memory starts to delete itself and deletes us over deletes up there. I give it a day, two days, three days, depending on you, your usage pattern.

00:10:08:10 – 00:10:25:00

You’ve forgotten all about it and there you are doing it all over again. Yeah, but what was interesting about what you said was this. You said when I was making money, I was doing it, you know, I was making money. And I’m wondering, right, because if you look at the movies and stuff like that, you will see the people who are being successful.

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Yeah, they’re racking it up. Do you think you had an association with making money being successful that you could use potentially to? I would say this as well. Obviously there’s another there’s another, substance that comes from bucket. Yeah, yeah. And there are people around who use that. Yeah. And obviously no I don’t discriminate against any substance tomato all the same.

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But I used to look at that particular one and be like, no, I can’t see how detrimental that is. Yeah this one seems a bit more. This is the cloth you can say that other drug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh I didn’t say what but I know exactly what you’re talking about. You’re the first person I’ve had on the podcast that said that to me.

00:11:09:04 – 00:11:26:11

It’s like I can do the sniff. Yeah, I ain’t smoking it because that’s another level, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh no, I wouldn’t do that. Yeah. But that’s okay. Yeah. Even if I’m doing it for three, 4 or 5 days, even if I’m doing it for two weeks later, we lace the day after. But if I do that. Oh yes.

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Yeah. Yeah, that is exactly that. I mean, is, is, it’s a perception and I feel like Packy is a bit more socially acceptable, even though it is become more common now than even when I was doing it. Even before I was done. It was probably more uncommon. Uncommon. But, that was more a perception at the time.

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It’s like you saw why to do that one, because it’s a bit more classy. But I agree. And did you need alcohol to use or did you dry sniff. Always alcohol. So alcohol was your gateway. Yeah. Never used without alcohol. Never. Sometimes. Sometimes but very rarely. Rarely. Yeah. And if you did use before you drank you know was going get alcohol 100%, you needed to level yourself a while and to when, when everything’s done.

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Yeah. You said some more research. You said you loved taking the packet. Can you elaborate on it and why and how it made you feel? There’s no yeah. I want to be cautious about what some of the things I say, because obviously I’m in a relationship and that but some of this stuff I get where you’re going to get, I won’t say where you go.

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So but obviously with me, my association was around women and stuff. I get it. When it came to that, I understood. So he turned from me, go into a party or to a club, let’s say in just doing whatever socially to me in a road. Yeah. And then it became some form of funky chicken. I call that a funky food.

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I was that mean funky chicken, like, you know, the woman you’ll trust that like a chicken you didn’t normally do. And you’re swinging from the chandeliers and you’re like, why was I here? Like, whoa, coming back, know I’m coming towards you. She’s there like tied up upside down in the street and you’re doing shit you’d never do, right.

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That’s the kind of stuff you’re doing when you’re off. You’re not. You like get it? No, no. That’s what’s going on in it. That’s a, that’s what’s going on in my head. But the reality is not this is not exactly exactly right out of your vision. Do you think you done that right. That is she is. You know, we don’t fancy chicken side.

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Right. And the reality is it’s like you start shy for like 20 minutes. Yeah. Three hours later, you’re an eighth down, you’ve done it. Nothing. And she’s leaving. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. Nothing’s up in this chair, right. Yeah. Nothing’s happening. But in your head you like this, that, this like stud. But in reality, you just like I didn’t know is not,

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But. Yeah, this. I’ve had to do a lot of stuff around that as well. A lot of work around that behavior as well. Because to me, that was I look at that as part of my addiction. Yeah, I would say, I would say that the majority of addictions have an extension of an addiction and that is, you know, women.

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That is for other people doing these for other people behavior, for some people going in for a football or different things. But for you, I understand where you’re going with that. And when you start your usage, I’m guessing was social, but then over a period of time, did it become you and your own? Yeah, 100%. It became me or my own.

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It became me on my own, probably about six years, seven years in. So it became like that because it was I would turned into a completely different person when I use. In what way? In a way where I become you. I just wouldn’t be a nice person to be around. You wouldn’t want to be around me. And.

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Yeah, just to even think about it, I can understand why. And I would feel really paranoid, so I wouldn’t want to be around anyone. Evil. Very paranoid, very paranoid. Sort of paranoid. We. You know, I would have. You can see things, assume things, do people’s thinking. I would assume someone’s just by looking at someone. What they. I’ll be thinking what they’re thinking.

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You know, we just saw a person standing by the front door with a knife hidden behind your back. I’ve heard these things. You. Yeah. No, I’ve. I’ve heard that, but no, I did always assume that police was coming for me. That. What? Someone’s coming through my door. Yeah. Always police for no reason. Well, some reason. Not a race of reasons.

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You know what I mean? Or something not so serious. There’s some reason. Please. Yeah, yeah, that was my meaning. You call it this? Sure. And how did you fund your addiction?

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I had ways. Listen, there’s no judgment on him. Off. Yeah. No, no, I had way serious. Honest. Yeah. No, I’m being honest. And I’m being honest that there was dishonest ways of me. Okay, okay. Yeah, you did whatever you had to do to get you a thing. Yeah, but I didn’t tell myself that’s what I was doing. Obviously, I was doing this because, for a certain lifestyle that wasn’t real.

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It always. That’s a facade. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And it always boiled down to this is I’m partying basically, you know, so I wouldn’t say I was out there doing it to just for that. But looking back, a huge, huge amount of my actions was because of what I was doing. And in the high of your addiction, I have frequently you using and be what sort of quantity we using to know what I went through different stages of by like maybe a night and then a night and then and I was just doing that and then that night in one night or I’ll do a night and then, then the next day I was facing.

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Then I called another eight because you were binge either. Binge. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Then I went into this getting tickets and these tickets and tickets to to tell myself if I don’t get I’m not, I won’t do as much right. And I end up spending more money. So then I’ll only buy two tickets. I won’t buy a knife because I’m not going to spend that kind of money on a night when I won’t use it.

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And then you end up buying more and more and more and more on a binge of what three days is what binge was. Because every day the money would you be spending, you look up and it’s all different times, but we all could have done. I could have done 300 pound a week. I could have done the grand a week.

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How, how much money that is? What you spend is what I spent. But there’s times when there’s times when I’ve done more than that. There’s times when you’ve made a bit more money in a way that you didn’t respect the money. I’m getting the feeling. And therefore you can blow the money. Yeah. Is that something? Yeah, yeah, there’s some things I won’t touch on now, I understand what I’m saying is, listen, when you go to work, the growth, the money.

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Right. We have a little bit respect for money. We’ve all done bad things, right? There’s no judgment here. It’s all done. Shit, right? When you work, you also if you respect that money. Yeah, but when that money comes from other means. Yeah. That you just flip that money. You blow that money. Listen, I got to lock horns. Somebody to serve up big time.

00:18:31:20 – 00:18:50:11

Right? And they say to me, I’m blah thousand pound. I got about 500. I can buy this watch for free. Right? That money isn’t sitting in their bank investing. Go and or buy a property. I’ll buy this. It’s going to make money. I’m gonna invest in a business. That money is frittered away because I didn’t graft. Yeah, that’s the kind of money you’re talking about.

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Yeah, no 100% there. Definitely that. And also what comes with that sometimes. What I would always have good intentions for some of the things I was doing. Dot you sounds mad, but I will be using dodgy money to try and set up a business, or to try and do this, or to try and do that, but it would always, always fall apart because my habit.

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So when I say that I would go out to try and do something, but it’s never going to work, I’m alright. Last month, my last two three months. But my habit will always get the better of me. Yeah, yeah. And how much do you spend over your years of addiction? Come on, put a number on it.

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A lot. Okay. Every, figure on it.

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Over 23 years? Yeah, it’s 23 years. God. I’m going to give you some background. Right. I asked this to DJ Pat Ross. Yeah, and I think he said to me, three undergrad, I asked this of jumping Jack Frost and I think he said what? His answer was different. His answer was no, necessarily. What I’ve spent. But if I looked at missed opportunities gigs, I didn’t turn up for counters.

00:20:00:20 – 00:20:20:05

I was supposed to go to, things I was supposed to do, and he went probably about 2 million. So when you think about this difference between what you spent and lost opportunity. Yeah. What do you think the total of what it cost you over 23 years? Give me a number. I don’t ever want to say desire just because there’s I.

00:20:20:07 – 00:20:50:17

That’s why I say it. But come on, let’s get something out of you today. The other one, let’s say less than or more than 1 million. That’s less than or more than 500,000. Other answers. My question. Thank you. Yeah. So let’s get back here to that paranoia. What level of paranoia did you experience and what sort of things would happen during this binge that did you ever see insects as a common one?

00:20:50:19 – 00:21:17:16

No, not. See, I love him. Oh, it’s me. I see spiders on the page. No, no, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t hallucinate, I would hear things over and fing assume there’s things in the room and, that I would sort of things. Yeah. I just my output is make up like mad scenarios, whole scenarios, movies if you like, in my head about situations that’s going on that just wasn’t real.

00:21:17:18 – 00:21:34:04

That’s that’s all I could say. What what was the final part that happened that made you go, oh, I got to talk about this now. This is it, this is it. I know we all have that up that come through our lives on our go do psych, and then you get back on it and I’ll go do so.

00:21:34:04 – 00:22:07:01

But there reaches a final point where you go, I’ll go do something about this. Now, what was that for you? This is my final point. Wasn’t even that bad compared to some of the things that I’ve done. Okay, so it was this. This I say in one incident, the usual thing I would do is I would have a drink or leave the house at, say, 10:00, and then I won’t come back till 9:00 or have been driving 10:00 in the night, and you come back at 9:00 in the morning, and in the morning I would have been out driving, you know, all of that.

00:22:07:01 – 00:22:28:11

And and I could just come home. And it was at a time when, when I was needed at home to say, okay, so, when I got back this specific day, I just something this hit me and I just lot. But I’ve had enough. But it was a period when my mom or Mrs. was trying to get me into rehab anyway, but I was only going to for them, you know.

00:22:28:11 – 00:22:49:06

So when this happened, I decided then we picked the phone up a lot. So myself and in Nashville, I ended up going to get help. That’s that’s really interesting because look, people who love you and care for you want you to get over the addiction, right? But there are times when we don’t see that we have a problem.

00:22:49:07 – 00:23:07:04

And that’s what you’re saying. Then you woke up and realized you had a problem. Yeah. And I also know, well, if I had gone out, there was like a space of a week or ten days, if I’d gone when they wanted me to go, I probably wouldn’t be sitting here today because I didn’t want to get clean. I was getting clean for them.

00:23:07:06 – 00:23:30:22

Not when that incident happened that even though it was something more, I know it wasn’t. I know, by the way, but it was more on in comparison to the things that I was up to. That is the difference between me being clean and me still being out there. Because I wanted to do it for myself. I call the people that you use around and I know listen, I know using follows this pattern.

00:23:30:22 – 00:23:51:08

It starts off that we do it socially. We do with other people. We do that for a long, long time. And then eventually in the majority of people, we may still do it occasionally. Socially we may not, but it’s usually on our own. Right? So I get that. But my question is, when you stopped and you finally stopped, what did you do with what I call your tribe?

00:23:51:08 – 00:24:10:13

What do you do with the people around you that use that you socially socialize with, or see what happened, especially at your age in the industry in that music? Yeah, 100%. I mean, this was a difficult thing for me at first. I mean, I went to treatment. I didn’t tell anyone. I went to treatment. Oh, you didn’t hear anything or I didn’t.

00:24:10:16 – 00:24:28:09

I didn’t want anyone to know. So what I just going to go about. I knew that I had to separate myself from the people while I was around. So I just didn’t tell them, and I just went treatment. I done that whole treatment. Come out, relapse and all of that. I’m off. We’ll come to the relapse because I want to be all right.

00:24:28:09 – 00:24:51:10

Cool. So basically, I don’t put myself around people I used with is the short answer. So anybody you used within the past, you don’t put yourself in that situation? No, I don’t go around them like some of them, are close friends. I’ll speak on the phone, but I won’t go around anyone or anywhere. Well, where I’ve used or anything like that.

00:24:51:12 – 00:25:08:03

And how have they reacted to you? Because the difference is they don’t see what. They don’t see what they mean. And. No, sir, no disrespecting them. Yeah. Because who am I to tell them what’s right or wrong? Not doing that. But what I’m saying is when we’re in it, we were both in it. Right? When you eat, you don’t see it.

00:25:08:03 – 00:25:36:19

Yeah. If other people are still in it, it’s very hard for them to comprehend what you mean. You were camera. Would you? Maybe you don’t have to use. Well, what would you mean? You’ve done it once a week. Once a month? What’s a big deal there? How have they reacted to you exactly that I think they don’t understand, what it takes and what I’ve gone through to get here, and they can’t see their own actions, but I can only manage myself in control.

00:25:36:19 – 00:25:58:12

Not I can’t control anyone. So it’s quite dangerous as well at the same time, because without the knowledge of recovery, I could easily give in to that and go there and and and put myself in a situation. But I’ve learned that I can only control myself from my actions, so I just know not to do it. In regards to them doing that, I just.

00:25:58:13 – 00:26:14:16

I don’t know what to say. I don’t I’m not mean, I don’t mean should I do or should they not do. I mean, how have they reacted to you, ghost? You know, for want of a better word, it’s in a respectful way. Yeah. And yet, no, not. Some are supportive. So me, I’m Connie, so I’m a supportive in so many ways.

00:26:14:16 – 00:26:33:17

Have you been surprised of the people who are supportive and then disappointed? Some of them who haven’t been they’ve been surprised you or did you anticipate the ones that were going to be supportive? And no, but a lot of the support coming from people is not as close. That’s interesting. Would you put that down so I don’t know.

00:26:33:20 – 00:26:52:12

Do you think you’ve let they do you think they think that you’ve let them down by getting sober and clean? I’ve gotten I’ve got no idea. And to be honest, I don’t care. That’s good. Yeah I don’t, I don’t really care because you’ve moved on. Yeah. I can’t care because I can only just focus on me in it.

00:26:52:12 – 00:27:12:04

I someone don’t understand it. I can’t it’s not more your ten months sober now corrected us. Awesome graduation. I thank us that you’ve been a bit of a distance. Been you up? Yeah. Listen, ten months here you are today, right? I know you had a relapse. And we’ll go onto that just for the listeners because it can help them.

00:27:12:06 – 00:27:43:23

But ten months, right? I imagine yourself here ten months clean as sober now. Yeah. And you look back at your old self ten months ago. What’s changed between now and then? Well, to know I just like it’s like light and day, night and day. It is. It is like. I was at a time where I didn’t care about who I had, who’s morally.

00:27:43:23 – 00:28:11:20

I took, if I saw my kids or not. If I cheated, I just didn’t care. I’d say do whatever I wanted to get. Whatever I need, gifted a gap, talk anyone out of anything. If I wanted it. No. Wasn’t even in my. I didn’t even hear no when it came to when I wanted to get what I need.

00:28:11:22 – 00:28:40:17

So now I have a bit more respect for people and myself. I definitely have no self-respect in hindsight. Definitely not. They don’t respect anyone else’s feelings. I was just a mess. Complete mess and lost complete trust from everyone. Like in the active addiction and completely like oblivious to what I was doing and making myself right like this.

00:28:40:21 – 00:29:15:07

Living in complete like blinkers on. Nothing. And now all those feelings are coming back. You know, I’ve got trust, I’ve got career, I’ve got my family, people to people for me. I’m responsible. You know, I turn up like I’ve got self-respect. All of these things. And, you know, we’ve gone about nothing. Nothing of these things. I lost or had, like Marley or knowledge.

00:29:15:07 – 00:29:35:22

That shit, all that stuff is irrelevant to me. All I want honesty is peace of mind, my heart and my family. To be able to look me in the eye. I can look them in the eye, you know, the full of, of of going back and not being able to to look my kids in the eye is a whole different thing.

00:29:36:00 – 00:29:54:12

And I just want to say one thing as well, because we spoke earlier, you spoke about that thinking of, you know, when we spoke about the free days and then you think about it and it goes back, you know, like recently, like from ten months clean. And I just want to say this because there may be someone else who is going through something.

00:29:54:12 – 00:30:12:12

And, and I had to ask a question to someone else in recovery because I still get thoughts and learning. And it wasn’t that bad. You know, that can still creep in. And I’ll speak to people who maybe ten years clean and they will say back to me that that’s just a natural thing. It can happen. It’s just a for an area.

00:30:12:12 – 00:30:27:21

It will try. It will often get me like that. So those thoughts have happened to me two days ago and I was like, why is that even coming into it? Into my, you know, into my head. But I think the answer is this to it. Because if that’s the question, I’m going to answer that as a question. Yeah, I’m going to take you as a question, I think.

00:30:27:23 – 00:30:48:15

I don’t know, you are someone else, but going to answer that question, what I think, I think what happens is this if you go back to when you first used like real rule back in the day or the first time, but like when you start getting into the past and we enjoyed it, we had a good laugh. We were out, we were partying, we were young, we recovered, we get up in the morning, we went to work.

00:30:48:17 – 00:31:07:01

It didn’t affect our lifestyle, right? Yeah. We always remember that. We’re like a tell you what, we’re like. I’ve got a very, very good friend of mine and he’s a gambler. Right. And, he doesn’t want to do his gambling addiction. And he’s never asked me for help, and I’ve never seen him and said, you need help, because who am I to say that?

00:31:07:03 – 00:31:28:03

But this guy will go into the bookies and he will tell me the times when he winning with a £50 and he came out with 500 pound. He came out with a monkey right. But he will not tell me the times that you winning the bookies with a monkey and came out with nothing. Yeah. And that’s was like you don’t remember initially all the times that were rubbish.

00:31:28:03 – 00:31:46:03

You remember all the good times, all the fun signs. And then you think to yourself, well, if I had good times, then those old times in those 23 years that were good, laugh when that last five years were a good laugh, because there will be some occasions that were right. I wouldn’t mind doing that. I don’t want to do it once every day.

00:31:46:03 – 00:32:02:16

I don’t do a three day binge, but if I could use once a month, or I might use once a month, or if I could use once every two months, it’s not a problem, then how about I use on a Friday every two months and I think every single person, not every. I can’t speak for every single month, but I can speak for myself.

00:32:02:21 – 00:32:20:16

I can speak for a lot of other people who I come into contact with. Literally hundreds and thousands of people who would say to me, I love that concept. When you like that concept, if he calls, you know, addiction, if you only use once every two months and never touch it again, wouldn’t you like to be like the now, now would you, if you’d never touch it again?

00:32:20:18 – 00:32:40:14

If you could only ever touch it for one gram once every two months? Doesn’t that concept somewhere inside of you still go, ooh, full of that scares me. Now you say I need to be outside as you now. Yeah. No, no. No way. Any place it scares you now because you know that it will escalate all over again.

00:32:40:16 – 00:32:56:23

But if you truly believed, you go back to using once every two months. Yeah. The majority of users will grab that right? Yeah. The problem is they can for 1 or 2 months, but then it becomes once a month, then it becomes once a week, then they’re back where they were all over again. Yeah, you get it. Yeah.

00:32:57:01 – 00:33:24:10

And that’s what you’re afraid of happening. And I respect that because we don’t want that. Yeah I know firsthand I saw up with it. Yeah this happened before. So what is it about the relapse. So. I went to treatment and I learned obviously about what I was suffering with, but I wasn’t listening. So I’ve gone into treatment. They’ve told me there’s free food, free gym.

00:33:24:12 – 00:33:43:19

I’m in the gym, doubling up and steroids. If we can say like, well, yeah, I can open that up in the I used to compete. Yeah, yeah, I know the story. Yeah. So I mean that, you know, with me having an issue around acted rather my relationship with that. So I’m in there and I’m in the gym.

00:33:43:21 – 00:34:09:00

I’m getting clean. I’m loving life. And I’m just all over the place. I’m basically the same person, but without the jokes. Yeah. And for me, that doesn’t work. I need to change a lot of things. So anyway, I’ve ended up not listening. They told me not to go out so soon. I’m back in the clubs. I’m walking around the room with my, you know, not look at me.

00:34:09:00 – 00:34:38:19

So yeah. And next thing you know, that obsession come back for me to try. So I just have a drink or whatever. And then it went from the minimal amount you could get of packet. I did. And when I tell you I came home and I could not even look in the mirror, I knew I was in trouble and I knew what was going on those whole 23 years and what I was running from in that one moment, but didn’t stop there.

00:34:38:19 – 00:35:01:09

I had a period of stopping and going back that go into where I need to go to get help, and then it just went out of control really quickly, really quickly. I’m not surprised you. Yeah. Because it which surprised me because it took me straight back to square one. And no, I wasn’t using a lot. I was using the bare minimum.

00:35:01:09 – 00:35:20:13

But it wasn’t about the amount. It was about how it made me feel exactly. It was it was. Let me explain this to you. Right. This is how I say, imagine you got this wall behind this, a white wall, right? Yeah. The first time we painted it gets a base coat. Yeah. The next time you paint it, it’s got a second coat.

00:35:20:15 – 00:35:40:16

Now, if you don’t paint that wall for six months, eight months, ten months, and then you decide to give it a coat of paint, you don’t need the two coats previously to get the finish. You only need to top up. Yeah, that’s what happens. You get a top up bang. You’ve already primed yourself. You’re already back where you were so fast.

00:35:40:22 – 00:36:03:17

That’s what happened. Worse, actually. Worse and worse. Way worse. Mentally. Yeah, yeah. So so here’s a question for you. Because when you deejay or MC, forgive me. Deejay, deejay. Now, I got a cool mix. When you hit the business right where you play. I go to when you’re doing that, social events where other people are taking, the packet.

00:36:03:19 – 00:36:21:15

How do you deal with that? How come up against us yet? Way of to tell that story. Actually, there’s a place called. I’m not going to say its name, but you go days like a studio every day. They’re all over the place. Okay? Not a studio for recording. Yeah. For recorded. Yeah. And, this is a so.

00:36:21:15 – 00:36:38:14

And I’ve gone to go taller and they lock the door and they just in there rocking it out, you know, leaning on this wall I said, oh we do a lock the door man. Yeah. Outside. And he’s like oh no. And then I waited for me went and I just want to hold it and all day. That’s the only time I’ve seen it since I’ve been in recovery.

00:36:38:16 – 00:37:01:14

And, did that. How is you know, it did. I’ve done so much that this time round, as long as I do what I’m going to do, I feel like I’ll be safe around. I wouldn’t put myself around it, but if I saw it, I know sleeve or whatever. But I’ve not experienced that. People have offered me the alcohol, but obviously I just.

00:37:01:16 – 00:37:19:21

I don’t think you lost duty or addiction, but you have. What do you think if you go back over that 23 years. Yeah, that you’re now in a much better place, a completely different person. But what do you think you lost? Forget the money. What did you lose in terms of things you would have had in your life or situations?

00:37:19:23 – 00:37:45:07

It’s an untold opportunities. And like I said this myself, we’ve been and I’m talking about using them from the age of 17. I got completely lost. Like mentally, emotionally, I hadn’t grown up. You might as well say I stayed the age. Yeah, in my mind, I’m more thinking and everything. So what is how how old are your kids, if you don’t mind me asking?

00:37:45:07 – 00:38:16:02

My oldest is 25 and I got three grandkids as well. Okay, so so so my oldest is 27 until 25. And I always think to myself, if my daughter or my son go into the park, I’d be devastated because I know how hard it is to get that. How are okay, what else they do. But that’s one of the things in my life I, I, you know, I so badly do not want them ever to to because I know how hard it is to go.

00:38:16:04 – 00:38:44:20

If your son was going through that, what would you say to him? What would you do? What would explode to me? Honestly? Yeah. But at. Or do you feel like you can’t say anything? In my heart of hearts I know there’s nothing I can do. That’s the honest truth. I can only lead by example. Because I know what what the power of addiction is.

00:38:44:20 – 00:39:05:00

No one can tell anyone to do nothing if that person don’t want to do it, or is not acknowledging that they’re going to issue a self, their self is going nowhere. I can pick him up and put him in a rehab 20 times, and it’s not going to happen. If he don’t want to come and say, I need help, it’s not going to happen.

00:39:05:00 – 00:39:23:07

And that’s the reality of it is sad, but it’s the reality of it. Yeah. No, I think you’re right. If you could go back into your younger self sewing now, what would you tell your younger self also? Is that what you say? And so the answer. Oh, I would say you need help. Oh you’re afraid to do that for me.

00:39:23:09 – 00:39:43:03

He’s not of my experience wasn’t I wasn’t afraid to do it. It might which was I didn’t think I had a problem. Yeah, I know I needed help. Yeah. Yeah I didn’t know any. Yeah. Problem was I knew I can say I think this is a problem more. Yeah I’m doing this a bit too much. But for me to turn round and say I’m an addict, I need help is mad.

00:39:43:08 – 00:40:05:09

Yeah. Listen, I asked this very last question has been absolute pleasure, by the way, I ask this question to all my guests, anyone listening to this right now, and I know you said about your son, listen, you can’t tell them anything, but if you could offer up one piece of advice to someone listening to this who is a follower of yours of great music, or just as it is listening to my podcast, or once to get over their addiction?

00:40:05:11 – 00:40:20:08

Well, one bit of advice would you give to somebody listening? Oh, so help answer, help! It is oh so help. That’s that’s all TJ Max. And thank you for being like yeah.